6 ms·

The next time any EU politician visits the US they should bring up human rights, like we expect(ed) them to do when they visit China.

antonvs 8mo ago
Also election integrity. It’s past the point where the US needs international observers for its elections.
- u_sama 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Forgeties79 8mo ago
    ^that’s bait
    - u_sama 8mo ago
      This is exactly how every EU country conducts their elections, it is crazy to paint this as some bait or crazy thing
      - ratrace 8mo ago
        [dead]
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - Forgeties79 8mo ago
        So every EU nation uses an EU-issued ID to vote? Or does each country, most of which are comparable to US states in size/population, have its own identification? To be clear: I am not against a national ID for voting. In fact, I think the best compromise is that the federal government should issue a free identification card to every US citizen, which can be replaced once (maybe twice) a year with no fee, that every state then recognizes (in addition to current identification forms) as a legitimate form of identification for voting. That sounds like a great idea to me as it could even help voters and imposes no fees to vote, but I can also tell you that it’s nothing like what the Republicans are proposing, even though it makes total sense. It’s pointless expense if you ask me. But if you believe voter fraud is a real problem then this seems like a reasonable solution.
        u_sama 8mo ago
        Brazil and China, which are as big as the USA in land (both) and population (China) have IDs as well. All IDs are issues by the nation-state but usable in other EU countries. I mean yeah, not free but a minimal fee like 20$ or something, doable in an easy place., the problem is not really the ability or will, but political polarization that makes even reasonable propositions become weaponized. It's not a pointless expense if it is integrated into other systems like healthcare, driving licence, and for example, online identification to do taxes and such. You cannot meaningfully digitalize bureaucracy without standard IDs.
        Forgeties79 8mo ago
        Why should it cost anything? It should be free and easy to acquire. No fee, no DMV nonsense. There is no reason to charge. Trump’s ridiculous crusade to “prove” voter fraud cost US taxpayers half a billion dollars directly. We could’ve easily given every person voting age an ID card with that money. You have to bear in mind that voting is opt-in here and you are already required to show ID to register to vote. On top of that, even states that don’t require an ID each time to cast your vote do require it the first time you vote. So nobody in the US can 1) register and then 2) vote without identification in any state, despite the republicans’ often misleading (through being incomplete) claim that you can vote without an ID. There are 3 barriers: not able to me vote by default, 2 times proving identification with a legal ID, and an ID every time you vote in 38/50 states. That is plenty to stop voter fraud, as clearly evidenced by the handful we see per election
    - BobaFloutist 8mo ago
      No, no, let them talk, I've heard some interesting ideas about only allowing people with passports to vote. It turns out that when the "voting security" party becomes the "anti -education" party, those two ideals might come into conflict...
      - u_sama 8mo ago
        In the rest of developped countries you can't vote without an official ID, in local, regional and national elections. I am not american, I don't care about your politics, ID voting is the way to ensure that no party or fringe movement gets to label elections as tricked. How is this such a controversial opinion that I get downvoted, national issued ID is the norm
        BobaFloutist 8mo ago
        Because the US doesn't have a default federal ID. Most people use state-issued drivers licenses (with varying levels of federal acceptance) as their primary ID. Historically, US States used "poll taxes" to defacto discriminate against recently freed slaves, who obviously had no money, so we have explicit laws against fees for voting, and an ID that you have to pay for is kind of an indirect way of implementing a fee for voting. There's a lot of complicated history involved, and I totally get why the system feels weird to an outsider, but you accidentally blew a dog whistle that usually belongs to people trying to find sneaky ways of preventing minorities from voting (that as I alluded too, have the potential to backfire in modern times). Maybe you wouldn't find it interesting, since you said you don't care about our politics, but the history of voting discrimination, voting rights, and the various schemes to try to surpress then while following the law in the US are kind of fascinating and worth digging into if you're genuinely curious.
        u_sama 8mo ago
        I will turn the omelette of sorts, I think that it still worth it as a standard to pursue the federal ID as it would simplify a lot of things overall and the whole tapestry of systems (state Ids and such) actually makes everything more difficult for everyone (minorities included) and more falsifiable which adds tension to an already polarized system. I am familiar with the history, but from an outsider POV it feels like the story of the sheep that got electrocuted once and then never ventured outside, the path dependency is not really helpful in general. Also I followed the law in the US to make ID mandatory at voting, and from what I saw the whole debate around it seemed deranged, if voter fraud and non-citizens voting is inexistent, why did so many people oppose it. Ironically what will happen is that the elderly will be most affected and will stop voting Republican (chat happened in the UK).
- cpa 8mo ago
  As member of OSCE, they have observers although it’s fairly light. https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/elections/usa/580111 https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/elections/usa/580111
pimeys 8mo ago
Last time our (Finland) president visited US he was playing golf and shaking hands. Supposedly signed some nice deals...
- consumer451 8mo ago
  I am confused, who in the Finnish government wrote the book that PM of Canada quoted at Davos?
  - spiderfarmer 8mo ago
    Stubb is a realist. He says the rules based world order is gone. We have to hurry and learn how to deal with dictators, because the US is becoming a dictatorship real quick. And that EU countries will have to unite in order to be able to negotiate from a position of strength. It's the only way to survive while staying true to our values (internally).
spwa4 8mo ago
Would that be the politicians that organized these things? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-001425_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-0014... I'm not clear on who owns them, but they USED to be owned by private parties and I can't find anything on a purchase ... so ... Oh and a recent addition: asylum proceedings DO NOT stop the deportation process in Europe anymore. Court proceedings "can proceed", but potentially after actual deportation. Oh and winning the court case gets you the right to stay ... NOT the right to enter. So if governments now just defund immigration courts ... oh they did that long before this new law came into being. Welcome to the new Europe! Do not worry. I am a European, and I'm 100% positive such details will not stop any Europeans from criticizing everyone else. In fact they're very unlikely to even know about their own laws, especially recent changes.

antonvs 8mo ago

Also election integrity. It’s past the point where the US needs international observers for its elections.

u_sama 8mo ago
[flagged]
- Forgeties79 8mo ago
  ^that’s bait
  - u_sama 8mo ago
    This is exactly how every EU country conducts their elections, it is crazy to paint this as some bait or crazy thing
    - ratrace 8mo ago
      [dead]
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - Forgeties79 8mo ago
      So every EU nation uses an EU-issued ID to vote? Or does each country, most of which are comparable to US states in size/population, have its own identification? To be clear: I am not against a national ID for voting. In fact, I think the best compromise is that the federal government should issue a free identification card to every US citizen, which can be replaced once (maybe twice) a year with no fee, that every state then recognizes (in addition to current identification forms) as a legitimate form of identification for voting. That sounds like a great idea to me as it could even help voters and imposes no fees to vote, but I can also tell you that it’s nothing like what the Republicans are proposing, even though it makes total sense. It’s pointless expense if you ask me. But if you believe voter fraud is a real problem then this seems like a reasonable solution.
      - u_sama 8mo ago
        Brazil and China, which are as big as the USA in land (both) and population (China) have IDs as well. All IDs are issues by the nation-state but usable in other EU countries. I mean yeah, not free but a minimal fee like 20$ or something, doable in an easy place., the problem is not really the ability or will, but political polarization that makes even reasonable propositions become weaponized. It's not a pointless expense if it is integrated into other systems like healthcare, driving licence, and for example, online identification to do taxes and such. You cannot meaningfully digitalize bureaucracy without standard IDs.
        Forgeties79 8mo ago
        Why should it cost anything? It should be free and easy to acquire. No fee, no DMV nonsense. There is no reason to charge. Trump’s ridiculous crusade to “prove” voter fraud cost US taxpayers half a billion dollars directly. We could’ve easily given every person voting age an ID card with that money. You have to bear in mind that voting is opt-in here and you are already required to show ID to register to vote. On top of that, even states that don’t require an ID each time to cast your vote do require it the first time you vote. So nobody in the US can 1) register and then 2) vote without identification in any state, despite the republicans’ often misleading (through being incomplete) claim that you can vote without an ID. There are 3 barriers: not able to me vote by default, 2 times proving identification with a legal ID, and an ID every time you vote in 38/50 states. That is plenty to stop voter fraud, as clearly evidenced by the handful we see per election
  - BobaFloutist 8mo ago
    No, no, let them talk, I've heard some interesting ideas about only allowing people with passports to vote. It turns out that when the "voting security" party becomes the "anti -education" party, those two ideals might come into conflict...
    - u_sama 8mo ago
      In the rest of developped countries you can't vote without an official ID, in local, regional and national elections. I am not american, I don't care about your politics, ID voting is the way to ensure that no party or fringe movement gets to label elections as tricked. How is this such a controversial opinion that I get downvoted, national issued ID is the norm
      - BobaFloutist 8mo ago
        Because the US doesn't have a default federal ID. Most people use state-issued drivers licenses (with varying levels of federal acceptance) as their primary ID. Historically, US States used "poll taxes" to defacto discriminate against recently freed slaves, who obviously had no money, so we have explicit laws against fees for voting, and an ID that you have to pay for is kind of an indirect way of implementing a fee for voting. There's a lot of complicated history involved, and I totally get why the system feels weird to an outsider, but you accidentally blew a dog whistle that usually belongs to people trying to find sneaky ways of preventing minorities from voting (that as I alluded too, have the potential to backfire in modern times). Maybe you wouldn't find it interesting, since you said you don't care about our politics, but the history of voting discrimination, voting rights, and the various schemes to try to surpress then while following the law in the US are kind of fascinating and worth digging into if you're genuinely curious.
        u_sama 8mo ago
        I will turn the omelette of sorts, I think that it still worth it as a standard to pursue the federal ID as it would simplify a lot of things overall and the whole tapestry of systems (state Ids and such) actually makes everything more difficult for everyone (minorities included) and more falsifiable which adds tension to an already polarized system. I am familiar with the history, but from an outsider POV it feels like the story of the sheep that got electrocuted once and then never ventured outside, the path dependency is not really helpful in general. Also I followed the law in the US to make ID mandatory at voting, and from what I saw the whole debate around it seemed deranged, if voter fraud and non-citizens voting is inexistent, why did so many people oppose it. Ironically what will happen is that the elderly will be most affected and will stop voting Republican (chat happened in the UK).
cpa 8mo ago
As member of OSCE, they have observers although it’s fairly light. https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/elections/usa/580111 https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/elections/usa/580111

pimeys 8mo ago

Last time our (Finland) president visited US he was playing golf and shaking hands. Supposedly signed some nice deals...

consumer451 8mo ago
I am confused, who in the Finnish government wrote the book that PM of Canada quoted at Davos?
- spiderfarmer 8mo ago
  Stubb is a realist. He says the rules based world order is gone. We have to hurry and learn how to deal with dictators, because the US is becoming a dictatorship real quick. And that EU countries will have to unite in order to be able to negotiate from a position of strength. It's the only way to survive while staying true to our values (internally).

spwa4 8mo ago

Would that be the politicians that organized these things? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-001425_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2025-0014... I'm not clear on who owns them, but they USED to be owned by private parties and I can't find anything on a purchase ... so ... Oh and a recent addition: asylum proceedings DO NOT stop the deportation process in Europe anymore. Court proceedings "can proceed", but potentially after actual deportation. Oh and winning the court case gets you the right to stay ... NOT the right to enter. So if governments now just defund immigration courts ... oh they did that long before this new law came into being. Welcome to the new Europe! Do not worry. I am a European, and I'm 100% positive such details will not stop any Europeans from criticizing everyone else. In fact they're very unlikely to even know about their own laws, especially recent changes.