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Native Android devlopment (i.e. C/C++) is a major PITA. Biggest reason: there still is no debugger for C/C++ code; you have to do all debugging with printf. In

by TwoBit 14y ago

Native Android devlopment (i.e. C/C++) is a major PITA. Biggest reason: there still is no debugger for C/C++ code; you have to do all debugging with printf. In 2012. I'm not kidding. Android NDK didn't even support the C++ Standard Library until recently. Another reason why Android is losing on the developer front is that development environment setup and usage, even for Java, is worse than Apple's. It's usage of Eclipse is like duct tape and glue.

cageface 14y ago
IntelliJ is a much better Android IDE than eclipse and far superior to Xcode.
- kgarten 14y ago
  I agree ... still I have the problem that the Android development chain on my Mac breaks from time to time. Disclaimer: I'm developing for iOS and I'm quite new to Android (playing with some code from time to time). Yet, debugging with a galaxy nexus on usb is buggy for me (sometimes it works sometimes it won't). reboot might help ... I just love instruments in xcode. As code editor I use MacVim (faster and a much cleaner look for me compared to IntelliJ as it's a coca citizen and not a Java GUI app ... ).
  - cageface 14y ago
    I agree iOS tool chain is more mature overall. I can't imagine giving up all the code editing features of IntelliJ for any generic text editor though. All that java and XML without code completion and refactoring is just too horrible to contemplate. If you're determined to go that route then why not just ditch the IDE entirely and do everything from the command line?
    - kgarten 14y ago
      MacVim has good code-completing and most of the advanced features out of the box, if you use YADR or similar ( https://github.com/skwp/dotfiles https://github.com/skwp/dotfiles ). I like to have the same environment regardless which language I'm using ( objective-c, python, java ... latex, html). I usually use Xcode/IntelliJ for refactoring and some more advanced functionality.
      - cageface 14y ago
        I think this is one of the reasons I always shied away from Vim. I can use my basic Emacs muscle memory in almost any text editing environment. But I'm sure you can brew up a pretty powerful Vim environment too with a little legwork.
jsankey 14y ago
There is support for debugging native code with gdb, and in the latest Android tools releases this is integrated into Eclipse via the CDT. However, it can still be difficult to set up - if it doesn't work the easy way it's very difficult to figure out how to fix it. And although there are quirks (mainly performance related) in the ADT/Eclipse combo your description is far from my experience. The overall experience is better, IMO, than Xcode. The latter is the buggiest IDE I've ever used. Frankly AppCode/IntelliJ beat both in many respects, but frustratingly don't quite cover the full range of functionality. It's difficult to make the leap when you need to go back to Xcode/Eclipse to accomplish some of your work each day.
- TwoBit 14y ago
  Show me a link that actually describes how to make it work. I have yet to see one.
  - jsankey 14y ago
    tools.android.com/recent/usingthendkplugin It's a relatively new addition, and as warned above it still might not work in all setups in my experience. But it's worth a go.
- wankerrific 14y ago
  Really? There is support for native code debugging if and only if you go through a boatload of non-obvious, unofficially documented steps. On Xcode I can fire it up and instantly set breakpoints - without settings tons of non-default settings, recompiling magic gdb.setup files, and hacking the built-in build scripts. Then when you get to single stepping its ridiculously slow. Anyone that has used or attempted to use the NDK debugger cannot say with a straight face that it is up to par with modern tools. Oh...then there is the issue of ridiculously uninformative stack traces. Its generally easier to build your code in an x-plat fashion in C++ and then work out as many bugs on iOS as you can and then - as the parent said - leave printf turds everywhere. Stone knives and bear skins...
- chj 14y ago
  You really need a lot of nerve to talk about how ADT is better than xcode. I used xcode for more than three years now, wrote a lot of object c/c/c++ and even assembler, and yet to find any major bug. This year I tried to port one of my app to Android, and the biggest challenge happens to be debugging native code. Basically you can't, there are some tutorials to set up gdb, but it shouldn't be that hard, and I don't bother. I ended up with printf, of course it is a nightmare. If Google can deliver a xcode quality IDE, it'd already ruled the world.
chubbard 14y ago
"Another reason why Android is losing on the developer front is that development environment setup and usage, even for Java, is worse than Apple's. It's usage of Eclipse is like duct tape and glue." I think this is mere perception vs reality. Android development environment is far superior to XCode. Using IntelliJ for Android Development is a true pleasure working with Android. I have no problems debugging over USB on my Mac ever. The game industry is incredibly rigid to any change. Once they've found their horse they will not walk away from it, and show little interest in changing how they approach development ever. This isn't the first time we've seen some long article with game studios wringing their hands over any change.

by TwoBit 14y ago

cageface 14y ago

IntelliJ is a much better Android IDE than eclipse and far superior to Xcode.

kgarten 14y ago
I agree ... still I have the problem that the Android development chain on my Mac breaks from time to time. Disclaimer: I'm developing for iOS and I'm quite new to Android (playing with some code from time to time). Yet, debugging with a galaxy nexus on usb is buggy for me (sometimes it works sometimes it won't). reboot might help ... I just love instruments in xcode. As code editor I use MacVim (faster and a much cleaner look for me compared to IntelliJ as it's a coca citizen and not a Java GUI app ... ).
- cageface 14y ago
  I agree iOS tool chain is more mature overall. I can't imagine giving up all the code editing features of IntelliJ for any generic text editor though. All that java and XML without code completion and refactoring is just too horrible to contemplate. If you're determined to go that route then why not just ditch the IDE entirely and do everything from the command line?
  - kgarten 14y ago
    MacVim has good code-completing and most of the advanced features out of the box, if you use YADR or similar ( https://github.com/skwp/dotfiles https://github.com/skwp/dotfiles ). I like to have the same environment regardless which language I'm using ( objective-c, python, java ... latex, html). I usually use Xcode/IntelliJ for refactoring and some more advanced functionality.
    - cageface 14y ago
      I think this is one of the reasons I always shied away from Vim. I can use my basic Emacs muscle memory in almost any text editing environment. But I'm sure you can brew up a pretty powerful Vim environment too with a little legwork.

jsankey 14y ago

There is support for debugging native code with gdb, and in the latest Android tools releases this is integrated into Eclipse via the CDT. However, it can still be difficult to set up - if it doesn't work the easy way it's very difficult to figure out how to fix it. And although there are quirks (mainly performance related) in the ADT/Eclipse combo your description is far from my experience. The overall experience is better, IMO, than Xcode. The latter is the buggiest IDE I've ever used. Frankly AppCode/IntelliJ beat both in many respects, but frustratingly don't quite cover the full range of functionality. It's difficult to make the leap when you need to go back to Xcode/Eclipse to accomplish some of your work each day.

TwoBit 14y ago
Show me a link that actually describes how to make it work. I have yet to see one.
- jsankey 14y ago
  tools.android.com/recent/usingthendkplugin It's a relatively new addition, and as warned above it still might not work in all setups in my experience. But it's worth a go.
wankerrific 14y ago
Really? There is support for native code debugging if and only if you go through a boatload of non-obvious, unofficially documented steps. On Xcode I can fire it up and instantly set breakpoints - without settings tons of non-default settings, recompiling magic gdb.setup files, and hacking the built-in build scripts. Then when you get to single stepping its ridiculously slow. Anyone that has used or attempted to use the NDK debugger cannot say with a straight face that it is up to par with modern tools. Oh...then there is the issue of ridiculously uninformative stack traces. Its generally easier to build your code in an x-plat fashion in C++ and then work out as many bugs on iOS as you can and then - as the parent said - leave printf turds everywhere. Stone knives and bear skins...
chj 14y ago
You really need a lot of nerve to talk about how ADT is better than xcode. I used xcode for more than three years now, wrote a lot of object c/c/c++ and even assembler, and yet to find any major bug. This year I tried to port one of my app to Android, and the biggest challenge happens to be debugging native code. Basically you can't, there are some tutorials to set up gdb, but it shouldn't be that hard, and I don't bother. I ended up with printf, of course it is a nightmare. If Google can deliver a xcode quality IDE, it'd already ruled the world.

chubbard 14y ago

"Another reason why Android is losing on the developer front is that development environment setup and usage, even for Java, is worse than Apple's. It's usage of Eclipse is like duct tape and glue." I think this is mere perception vs reality. Android development environment is far superior to XCode. Using IntelliJ for Android Development is a true pleasure working with Android. I have no problems debugging over USB on my Mac ever. The game industry is incredibly rigid to any change. Once they've found their horse they will not walk away from it, and show little interest in changing how they approach development ever. This isn't the first time we've seen some long article with game studios wringing their hands over any change.