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Black people seeking structural or infrastructural autonomy within the US to counteract their historic exclusion from power, production, and protection post-sla

by pfraze 7mo ago

Black people seeking structural or infrastructural autonomy within the US to counteract their historic exclusion from power, production, and protection post-slave-trade is a fairly specific context which doesn't apply to white or asian folks. Also I don't think asian people would appreciate being called "yellow."

xg15 7mo ago
I can understand it from their perspective, but still don't think it's a good development (same with other exclusionary "safe spaces" for other groups). Or rather, I'd at least like to know what is the end game here. Have those groups effectively given up any hope of changing the country and mainstream society at large, so the new strategy is now retreating into gated communities while leaving the rest to the Trumps and Musks?
- pfraze 7mo ago
  The way the protocol works, they're not isolated, and so they're not ceding ground to other groups. I suppose the closest analogy would be an email host, in that running your own email host wouldn't materially isolate your users but it would enable you to set policies for your own users.
- Kye 7mo ago
  It's not gated. I can still talk to people fully in the Blacksky stack and interact with their public posts. The usual pattern is like that Alex Norris comic: "you do not fit in here" "okay we will make our own place" "why are you excluding us" "oh no" Except here they can stay connected with the broader Atmosphere but engage on their own terms.
  - illithid0 7mo ago
    I might be missing something about the protocol, but when logged into BlueSky, I can't interact with BlackSky accounts at all. I specifically have to have an account there to even follow a BlackSky account. I'm not as familiar with ATProto as ActivityPub, but following someone from another Mastodon instance, for example, is seamless as long as I'm logged in to the account I have on my home instance.
    - pfraze 7mo ago
      Can you describe what happens? That would be a pretty significant bug. Users are hosted all over the place and typically interact fine.
      - illithid0 7mo ago
        I was trying to interact with the account mentioned in the grekpak blog post here: https://blacksky.community/profile/did:plc:w4xbfzo7kqfes5zb7r6qv3rw https://blacksky.community/profile/did:plc:w4xbfzo7kqfes5zb7... I can't comment, follow, like, or anything like that without getting the "Sign in or create your account to join the cookout!" popup. I wasn't trying to cause problems or get downvoted, this is just the the first non-BlueSky PDS I've ever come across and was curious to see the federation work.
        pfraze 7mo ago
        Oh just look them up on the app you have an account with (I believe bluesky). @rude1.blacksky.team
        illithid0 7mo ago
        Ah, okay, thank you. I was expecting it to work more like Mastodon in the sense that I can go to a different instance and interact with accounts seamlessly without having to bring them up in my own instance, but this is fine, too.
    - rubyn00bie 7mo ago
      I follow, and am followed by, folks who use Blacksky and interact with them regularly. I have had zero issue with this, at any point. As Paul (the CTO of Bluesky) said in a sibling comment this would be a very serious bug. FWIW— I have also not heard anything even remotely close to this at all from anyone using either service.
- komali2 7mo ago
  > I'd at least like to know what is the end game here. Have those groups effectively given up any hope of changing the country and mainstream society at large, so the new strategy is now retreating into gated communities I noticed this occasional tendency in the west to analyze an action or behavior by hypothetically scaling it to way beyond the scope of the actual action or behavior, and I've been wondering if this is some kind of judicial application of Kantian thinking? I'd push back on that and say, not everything has to be scaled. Not every behavior is an indictment of other behavior. People doing things isn't necessarily an argument that all people should do those same things. Nor is it an indication that those people only want to do those things that way - just because some black people want a reprieve from whatever their perception of day to day western life is, doesn't mean they've "given up" on making any changes to that society.
  - xg15 7mo ago
    It's part of a trend though. The tendency of "safe spaces" is several decades old by now. You can still ask why someone would think that this is a good or necessary thing to do.
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
    - brendoelfrendo 7mo ago
      Is not the onus on the rest of society to examine why black people (or any marginalized group) would not feel safe without their own safe spaces?
      - alienthrowaway 7mo ago
        It's facetious when people question why BlackSky need to exist 40+ years after the "14 words" and in the age where White Christian Nationalism is completely mask-off. HN often tolerates dog whistles about how school kids bussed from "the had part of town" are a net-negative, but BlackSky is suddenly the bad type of segregation? GTFOH.
  - deleted 7mo ago
- epistasis 7mo ago
  What is an exclusionary safe space? I've never heard of or encountered such a thing. Or are you saying that safe spaces are necessarily exclusionary, because they are welcoming people that have reasons to feel unsafe other places? It seems like a very confusing concept to just throw out there without explanation!

by pfraze 7mo ago

xg15 7mo ago

I can understand it from their perspective, but still don't think it's a good development (same with other exclusionary "safe spaces" for other groups). Or rather, I'd at least like to know what is the end game here. Have those groups effectively given up any hope of changing the country and mainstream society at large, so the new strategy is now retreating into gated communities while leaving the rest to the Trumps and Musks?

pfraze 7mo ago
The way the protocol works, they're not isolated, and so they're not ceding ground to other groups. I suppose the closest analogy would be an email host, in that running your own email host wouldn't materially isolate your users but it would enable you to set policies for your own users.
Kye 7mo ago
It's not gated. I can still talk to people fully in the Blacksky stack and interact with their public posts. The usual pattern is like that Alex Norris comic: "you do not fit in here" "okay we will make our own place" "why are you excluding us" "oh no" Except here they can stay connected with the broader Atmosphere but engage on their own terms.
- illithid0 7mo ago
  I might be missing something about the protocol, but when logged into BlueSky, I can't interact with BlackSky accounts at all. I specifically have to have an account there to even follow a BlackSky account. I'm not as familiar with ATProto as ActivityPub, but following someone from another Mastodon instance, for example, is seamless as long as I'm logged in to the account I have on my home instance.
  - pfraze 7mo ago
    Can you describe what happens? That would be a pretty significant bug. Users are hosted all over the place and typically interact fine.
    - illithid0 7mo ago
      I was trying to interact with the account mentioned in the grekpak blog post here: https://blacksky.community/profile/did:plc:w4xbfzo7kqfes5zb7r6qv3rw https://blacksky.community/profile/did:plc:w4xbfzo7kqfes5zb7... I can't comment, follow, like, or anything like that without getting the "Sign in or create your account to join the cookout!" popup. I wasn't trying to cause problems or get downvoted, this is just the the first non-BlueSky PDS I've ever come across and was curious to see the federation work.
      - pfraze 7mo ago
        Oh just look them up on the app you have an account with (I believe bluesky). @rude1.blacksky.team
        illithid0 7mo ago
        Ah, okay, thank you. I was expecting it to work more like Mastodon in the sense that I can go to a different instance and interact with accounts seamlessly without having to bring them up in my own instance, but this is fine, too.
  - rubyn00bie 7mo ago
    I follow, and am followed by, folks who use Blacksky and interact with them regularly. I have had zero issue with this, at any point. As Paul (the CTO of Bluesky) said in a sibling comment this would be a very serious bug. FWIW— I have also not heard anything even remotely close to this at all from anyone using either service.
komali2 7mo ago
> I'd at least like to know what is the end game here. Have those groups effectively given up any hope of changing the country and mainstream society at large, so the new strategy is now retreating into gated communities I noticed this occasional tendency in the west to analyze an action or behavior by hypothetically scaling it to way beyond the scope of the actual action or behavior, and I've been wondering if this is some kind of judicial application of Kantian thinking? I'd push back on that and say, not everything has to be scaled. Not every behavior is an indictment of other behavior. People doing things isn't necessarily an argument that all people should do those same things. Nor is it an indication that those people only want to do those things that way - just because some black people want a reprieve from whatever their perception of day to day western life is, doesn't mean they've "given up" on making any changes to that society.
- xg15 7mo ago
  It's part of a trend though. The tendency of "safe spaces" is several decades old by now. You can still ask why someone would think that this is a good or necessary thing to do.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
  - brendoelfrendo 7mo ago
    Is not the onus on the rest of society to examine why black people (or any marginalized group) would not feel safe without their own safe spaces?
    - alienthrowaway 7mo ago
      It's facetious when people question why BlackSky need to exist 40+ years after the "14 words" and in the age where White Christian Nationalism is completely mask-off. HN often tolerates dog whistles about how school kids bussed from "the had part of town" are a net-negative, but BlackSky is suddenly the bad type of segregation? GTFOH.
- deleted 7mo ago
epistasis 7mo ago
What is an exclusionary safe space? I've never heard of or encountered such a thing. Or are you saying that safe spaces are necessarily exclusionary, because they are welcoming people that have reasons to feel unsafe other places? It seems like a very confusing concept to just throw out there without explanation!