4 ms·

I’m surprised they don’t show true temperament frets. https://strandbergguitars.com/en-WW/magazine/true-temperament https://strandbergguitars.com/en-WW/magazin

by dagmx 7mo ago

I’m surprised they don’t show true temperament frets. https://strandbergguitars.com/en-WW/magazine/true-temperament https://strandbergguitars.com/en-WW/magazine/true-temperamen... They solve exactly for this issue, and sound amazing in use. The downside is that you are somewhat locked into a given tuning. Alternatively you can take the approach of guitars with movable frets so you can adjust them per tuning. https://youtu.be/EZC69A8TsJ8?si=7hUIb7FEKb45eV_L https://youtu.be/EZC69A8TsJ8?si=7hUIb7FEKb45eV_L These are generally used for microtonal playing but can also effectively be true temperament as well. Guitars with gut frets used to have adjustable positions, which allowed for some mitigation via changing fret positions too

semitones 7mo ago
True temperament solves for a _different_ issue than what OP's post talks about. From the strandberg true temperament page: > Let’s begin by describing the issue with standard equal tempered frets; standard fret spacing is calculated from one single piece of information about the guitar, the scale length. This principle ignores that the frequency of a vibrating string is calculated by three factors: the mass of the string, the tension applied and the speaking length. All three of these factors are affected to different degrees each time a string is pressed down on a fret. The only way to correctly compensate for all three of these parameters is to adjust each string-to-fret connection point independently, until each note plays the correct frequency. This issue, which is impossible to solve with standard tempered frets, is what True Temperament solves. So the true temperament system is compensating for the fact that a thicker string behaves differently when fretted than a thinner string. It still provides a 12 TET system however. What you are probably thinking of, is a _just intonation_ fretboard, which exists and looks very different: https://projectionsliberantes.ca/en/guitars-tuning-system/ https://projectionsliberantes.ca/en/guitars-tuning-system/ You can see that rather than squiggles, different strings have frets in completely different places.
- dagmx 7mo ago
  A true temperament isn’t just about compensating for the string mass differences but also for their differing intonation points. A true temperament won’t get to the same level as a movable fret system but it does also compensate to a certain degree for the differing intonation points across strings at different tunings (what it refers to as speaking length which captures both point to point length and mass related deformation length). They’re different but inherently associated issues. More information is here https://www.thatguitarlover.com/blog/what-is-true-temperament https://www.thatguitarlover.com/blog/what-is-true-temperamen... But this is also why I mention both fret compensation systems in my original post.
- busterarm 7mo ago
  TT necks are an absolute waste of money. At least if you went with the Earvana nut you only wasted $5 and the time to replace the thing. I've known a lot of musicians that have used the necks but mainly only while sponsored and none of them prefer them. Big names in the guitar world. You're better off spending that money on a better-constructed guitar. And lessons. So many people mistakenly think that gimmicks will make them sound better. TT necks. Fanned frets/multiscale. The right effects chain...
  - dagmx 7mo ago
    This feels like a really puritanical take on things. Fanned frets and multiscale absolutely help with the playability of an instrument. It’s physics, there’s nothing mystical or gimmicky about it. Maybe YOU don’t want it, but it prevents strings from going flabby without needing much heavier gauges. Which does help with a wide range of playing styles and genres. Unless you also believe that all guitars should have a single scale length or something, and a single neck profile and fingerboard radius. Otherwise if you concede that it comes down to feel+preference then there’s no argument to make against multiscale instruments.
    - busterarm 7mo ago
      Building multiscale means more work to build which means higher prices and more complex repairs. A reasonable jump in work/cost for marginally better playability. Also more things for the builder to fuck up and get wrong. That's kinda normal though, there's a lot of terribly-built instruments on the market and a lot of customers who can't even tell (e.g., people still buying Gibson despite decades of everyone saying their instruments don't QC). I have all kinds of wild/bizarre/insane instruments for different purposes -- there's nothing puritanical here (I spend most of my time at NAMM in Hall E). I'm just saying that for 99.9% of players though these features aren't doing a damn bit of difference and most people are buying them out of gear-worship. I think it's wild that we're talking about the "physics" of neck construction/playability and tension when at least 80% of guitar players can't even properly set up their own instrument and their tone sucks. It's in the fingers, man. If any of you think that cargo-culting among software developers is bad, guitar players are that 10x over. If not 100x.
xenophonf 7mo ago
Here's the YouTube link without that tracking code for those of us on mobile: https://youtu.be/EZC69A8TsJ8 https://youtu.be/EZC69A8TsJ8 (I wish Firefox on iOS had a "open clean link" option, but I'd wish Mozilla would fix other more important stuff first, like letting me search/open bookmarks from a private tab.)

by dagmx 7mo ago

semitones 7mo ago

True temperament solves for a _different_ issue than what OP's post talks about. From the strandberg true temperament page: > Let’s begin by describing the issue with standard equal tempered frets; standard fret spacing is calculated from one single piece of information about the guitar, the scale length. This principle ignores that the frequency of a vibrating string is calculated by three factors: the mass of the string, the tension applied and the speaking length. All three of these factors are affected to different degrees each time a string is pressed down on a fret. The only way to correctly compensate for all three of these parameters is to adjust each string-to-fret connection point independently, until each note plays the correct frequency. This issue, which is impossible to solve with standard tempered frets, is what True Temperament solves. So the true temperament system is compensating for the fact that a thicker string behaves differently when fretted than a thinner string. It still provides a 12 TET system however. What you are probably thinking of, is a _just intonation_ fretboard, which exists and looks very different: https://projectionsliberantes.ca/en/guitars-tuning-system/ https://projectionsliberantes.ca/en/guitars-tuning-system/ You can see that rather than squiggles, different strings have frets in completely different places.

dagmx 7mo ago
A true temperament isn’t just about compensating for the string mass differences but also for their differing intonation points. A true temperament won’t get to the same level as a movable fret system but it does also compensate to a certain degree for the differing intonation points across strings at different tunings (what it refers to as speaking length which captures both point to point length and mass related deformation length). They’re different but inherently associated issues. More information is here https://www.thatguitarlover.com/blog/what-is-true-temperament https://www.thatguitarlover.com/blog/what-is-true-temperamen... But this is also why I mention both fret compensation systems in my original post.
busterarm 7mo ago
TT necks are an absolute waste of money. At least if you went with the Earvana nut you only wasted $5 and the time to replace the thing. I've known a lot of musicians that have used the necks but mainly only while sponsored and none of them prefer them. Big names in the guitar world. You're better off spending that money on a better-constructed guitar. And lessons. So many people mistakenly think that gimmicks will make them sound better. TT necks. Fanned frets/multiscale. The right effects chain...
- dagmx 7mo ago
  This feels like a really puritanical take on things. Fanned frets and multiscale absolutely help with the playability of an instrument. It’s physics, there’s nothing mystical or gimmicky about it. Maybe YOU don’t want it, but it prevents strings from going flabby without needing much heavier gauges. Which does help with a wide range of playing styles and genres. Unless you also believe that all guitars should have a single scale length or something, and a single neck profile and fingerboard radius. Otherwise if you concede that it comes down to feel+preference then there’s no argument to make against multiscale instruments.
  - busterarm 7mo ago
    Building multiscale means more work to build which means higher prices and more complex repairs. A reasonable jump in work/cost for marginally better playability. Also more things for the builder to fuck up and get wrong. That's kinda normal though, there's a lot of terribly-built instruments on the market and a lot of customers who can't even tell (e.g., people still buying Gibson despite decades of everyone saying their instruments don't QC). I have all kinds of wild/bizarre/insane instruments for different purposes -- there's nothing puritanical here (I spend most of my time at NAMM in Hall E). I'm just saying that for 99.9% of players though these features aren't doing a damn bit of difference and most people are buying them out of gear-worship. I think it's wild that we're talking about the "physics" of neck construction/playability and tension when at least 80% of guitar players can't even properly set up their own instrument and their tone sucks. It's in the fingers, man. If any of you think that cargo-culting among software developers is bad, guitar players are that 10x over. If not 100x.

xenophonf 7mo ago

Here's the YouTube link without that tracking code for those of us on mobile: https://youtu.be/EZC69A8TsJ8 https://youtu.be/EZC69A8TsJ8 (I wish Firefox on iOS had a "open clean link" option, but I'd wish Mozilla would fix other more important stuff first, like letting me search/open bookmarks from a private tab.)