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> The average person can't afford to raise a kid Yes they can, they just choose not to. I think the reason people aren't having kids is that they're on their

by echelon 8mo ago

> The average person can't afford to raise a kid Yes they can, they just choose not to. I think the reason people aren't having kids is that they're on their phone all the time. I'm serious. Phone use is a dopamine sink and removes pauses throughout the day otherwise spent on relationships and thinking about the future. I'm not the only person to think this. https://www.vox.com/today-explained-podcast/405376/pronatalism-fertility-couples-romance-alice-evans https://www.vox.com/today-explained-podcast/405376/pronatali... Furthermore, people in past times were historically more budget-conscious and stressed than we are - yet they had lots of children. And developing nations are typically much pooerer than our lower class, yet they're also having lots of children.

currydove 8mo ago
There's never just one reason, obviously. Maybe phones are a big reason we're not socializing as much and it cascades from there. But as a young parent, I'm gonna tell you flat out - the core necessities, not the best of the best, are insanely expensive today than ever before as a share of our monthly take home. I'm a huge fan of public schools, letting kids play and be out on their own till 10-11pm a night with other kids, etc, etc. But just the first 3 years until publicly funded pre-school kicks in is going to cost us over 100k. It doesn't become free after that of course, but definitely not 30k+ per annum. We'll see how quickly we can potty train, I'd like to avoid using diapers after a while, but that's not the major expense for us since we're your run of the mill dual income couple. Just standard day care is 2500 a month in Chicago. Unlike the bay or NY, there isn't a wait-list or competition to get in but it's definitely priced at the high end. We're delaying using that until both our parental leaves finish up, which not everyone gets to have in the US. We also have my parents moving close to us to help with the kiddo. Most of the things that made a village what it was without professional services (except day care which is a big one) we're gonna do, and it still is going to be stupid expensive. My parents are in shock compared to what their expectations were based on how I grew up vs today's reality.
basket_horse 8mo ago
Do you have kids? The phone comment seems pretty out of touch. I have two young kids in NYC and it’s objectively very expensive. Ignoring all consumables, daycare and needing a 2 bedroom apt triples our monthly expenses as compared to before having kids. Of course for both of these it’s technically possible to solve. If we lived in the suburbs space would be cheaper and having kids wouldn’t double our rent. If one of us didn’t work or had grandparents willing to help daycare wouldnt be needed. In less developed / modern places these issues might not be as acute, but for many modern day families they are very real issues. Regardless, kids are a lot of work and expensive, and I don’t see how being on your phone a bit changes that.

by echelon 8mo ago

currydove 8mo ago

There's never just one reason, obviously. Maybe phones are a big reason we're not socializing as much and it cascades from there. But as a young parent, I'm gonna tell you flat out - the core necessities, not the best of the best, are insanely expensive today than ever before as a share of our monthly take home. I'm a huge fan of public schools, letting kids play and be out on their own till 10-11pm a night with other kids, etc, etc. But just the first 3 years until publicly funded pre-school kicks in is going to cost us over 100k. It doesn't become free after that of course, but definitely not 30k+ per annum. We'll see how quickly we can potty train, I'd like to avoid using diapers after a while, but that's not the major expense for us since we're your run of the mill dual income couple. Just standard day care is 2500 a month in Chicago. Unlike the bay or NY, there isn't a wait-list or competition to get in but it's definitely priced at the high end. We're delaying using that until both our parental leaves finish up, which not everyone gets to have in the US. We also have my parents moving close to us to help with the kiddo. Most of the things that made a village what it was without professional services (except day care which is a big one) we're gonna do, and it still is going to be stupid expensive. My parents are in shock compared to what their expectations were based on how I grew up vs today's reality.

basket_horse 8mo ago

Do you have kids? The phone comment seems pretty out of touch. I have two young kids in NYC and it’s objectively very expensive. Ignoring all consumables, daycare and needing a 2 bedroom apt triples our monthly expenses as compared to before having kids. Of course for both of these it’s technically possible to solve. If we lived in the suburbs space would be cheaper and having kids wouldn’t double our rent. If one of us didn’t work or had grandparents willing to help daycare wouldnt be needed. In less developed / modern places these issues might not be as acute, but for many modern day families they are very real issues. Regardless, kids are a lot of work and expensive, and I don’t see how being on your phone a bit changes that.