6 ms·

Aren't EVs totally unusable if you live in an apartment? That was my impression when I looked into them. Like, how would I charge a car in my parking stall?

by chc 14y ago

jellicle 14y ago
You are correct it is difficult. There is a strong push on now for new underground parking to be constructed with 240V electrical service roughed in to many of the spaces, to accommodate future charging stations.
jblow 14y ago
It is definitely less convenient if you don't have a garage. But as mentioned, this is starting to be addressed. Also, the Supercharger-style charging station becomes a lot like a gas station would be for a normal car. I do think that "I don't have a garage / dedicated place to park my car" is in fact the only current anti-EV argument that has any basis in reality. But it's addressable.
- freehunter 14y ago
  Really? The only argument? How about my family lives 575 miles away from me, and even with the ideal 250 mile range of a $100k Model S I would still need to add at least an hour and a half to my already 10 hour one-way trip when I visit them a few times per year? Meanwhile my $5,000, 14-year-old Toyota might only get 20mpg, but the tank holds 350 miles of fuel and I only need to refill once (rather than thrice) during the trip, costing me literally minutes of time. Finding a place to recharge overnight is a problem. But let's not pretend it's the only real problem. I already have enough problems charging my phone every night when I'm staying over at someone's house. Asking them to install an outlet so I can charge my car is asking a bit more than many people will stand.
  - matthewaustin 14y ago
    Congratulations - you are the 1% who this model fails for. The rest of us will be just fine, since 99% of us don't travel more than 250 miles a day. And for the couple times a year we need to take road trips, we can rent a luxury sedan with the money we've saved on fuel costs.
    - ryanhuff 14y ago
      Isn't the 250 miles a max range, assuming ideal driving conditions? Also, as the car ages, will the battery range erode significantly? If its similar to consumer rechargeable battery technology, should we expect that the 250 mile range will be closer to 150 miles with "typical" driving behavior and after the car has been driven for 50K miles?
      - mncolinlee 14y ago
        It entirely depends upon the chemistry of the automotive lithium battery, which typically use different catalysts than laptop batteries. For Lithium Manganese Oxide batteries, the prediction is 70% after eight years. That would be 175 miles range at 120,000 miles driving. There are new and better chemistries coming out like lithium NMC arriving this year that store 75% more energy per lb at a similar price. http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generation-battery-is-coming-online-now/ http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generati...
        ryanhuff 14y ago
        Thanks. If you read the comments on the page that you linked to, you will see a couple of Leaf customers complaining that their battery capacity is already down 15%. Hopefully the new batteries technology addresses this.
        mncolinlee 14y ago
        That is a problem in the hottest regions of the country and the world. Our recent climate change-related heat wave made the problem even worse. There is no active heat management in the current Nissan Leaf battery except a battery warmer for cold temperatures. Since I live in Minnesota, I don't expect I'll venture to the Arizona or SoCal desert with my Leaf, where most of the damaged Leafs are. I also limit my charge to 80% max during the summer to lengthen the battery life. So far, I haven't had any noticeable capacity loss.
    - freehunter 14y ago
  - melvinmt 14y ago
    > when I visit them a few times per year Easy, leave the EV at home and rent a gasoline car a few times a year.
  - maigret 14y ago
    Peugeot has already a very simple response for that with the mu program: lease your electric car, and you get a bigger/gas-powered car when you need it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/10/peugeot-car-club-mu http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/10/peugeot-car-club...
jlgreco 14y ago
My (new) apartment building has power hookups for EVs. I have seen two or three using them.
refurb 14y ago
Forget the parking stall, what about the big cities (like SF) where a sizable chunk of all cars are parked on the street.
clauretano 14y ago
New apartment buildings under construction that want to game the LEED system are always looking for ways to get points. Adding a charging station or two to their underground parking garage is an easy way. The trouble is, investing in an electric car you're going to keep for 4-5 years starts making less sense when it means you might be locked into your apartment for just as long.
henrikschroder 14y ago
There are places in the world where these are common: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater Getting electricity out to a parking spot is not a problem, and hasn't been a problem for the last 40 years or so that people have had block heaters.

Aren't EVs totally unusable if you live in an apartment? That was my impression when I looked into them. Like, how would I charge a car in my parking stall?

by chc 14y ago

Aren't EVs totally unusable if you live in an apartment? That was my impression when I looked into them. Like, how would I charge a car in my parking stall?

jellicle 14y ago

You are correct it is difficult. There is a strong push on now for new underground parking to be constructed with 240V electrical service roughed in to many of the spaces, to accommodate future charging stations.

jblow 14y ago

It is definitely less convenient if you don't have a garage. But as mentioned, this is starting to be addressed. Also, the Supercharger-style charging station becomes a lot like a gas station would be for a normal car. I do think that "I don't have a garage / dedicated place to park my car" is in fact the only current anti-EV argument that has any basis in reality. But it's addressable.

freehunter 14y ago
Really? The only argument? How about my family lives 575 miles away from me, and even with the ideal 250 mile range of a $100k Model S I would still need to add at least an hour and a half to my already 10 hour one-way trip when I visit them a few times per year? Meanwhile my $5,000, 14-year-old Toyota might only get 20mpg, but the tank holds 350 miles of fuel and I only need to refill once (rather than thrice) during the trip, costing me literally minutes of time. Finding a place to recharge overnight is a problem. But let's not pretend it's the only real problem. I already have enough problems charging my phone every night when I'm staying over at someone's house. Asking them to install an outlet so I can charge my car is asking a bit more than many people will stand.
- matthewaustin 14y ago
  Congratulations - you are the 1% who this model fails for. The rest of us will be just fine, since 99% of us don't travel more than 250 miles a day. And for the couple times a year we need to take road trips, we can rent a luxury sedan with the money we've saved on fuel costs.
  - ryanhuff 14y ago
    Isn't the 250 miles a max range, assuming ideal driving conditions? Also, as the car ages, will the battery range erode significantly? If its similar to consumer rechargeable battery technology, should we expect that the 250 mile range will be closer to 150 miles with "typical" driving behavior and after the car has been driven for 50K miles?
    - mncolinlee 14y ago
      It entirely depends upon the chemistry of the automotive lithium battery, which typically use different catalysts than laptop batteries. For Lithium Manganese Oxide batteries, the prediction is 70% after eight years. That would be 175 miles range at 120,000 miles driving. There are new and better chemistries coming out like lithium NMC arriving this year that store 75% more energy per lb at a similar price. http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generation-battery-is-coming-online-now/ http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-carlos-ghosn-second-generati...
      - ryanhuff 14y ago
        Thanks. If you read the comments on the page that you linked to, you will see a couple of Leaf customers complaining that their battery capacity is already down 15%. Hopefully the new batteries technology addresses this.
        mncolinlee 14y ago
        That is a problem in the hottest regions of the country and the world. Our recent climate change-related heat wave made the problem even worse. There is no active heat management in the current Nissan Leaf battery except a battery warmer for cold temperatures. Since I live in Minnesota, I don't expect I'll venture to the Arizona or SoCal desert with my Leaf, where most of the damaged Leafs are. I also limit my charge to 80% max during the summer to lengthen the battery life. So far, I haven't had any noticeable capacity loss.
  - freehunter 14y ago
- melvinmt 14y ago
  > when I visit them a few times per year Easy, leave the EV at home and rent a gasoline car a few times a year.
- maigret 14y ago
  Peugeot has already a very simple response for that with the mu program: lease your electric car, and you get a bigger/gas-powered car when you need it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/10/peugeot-car-club-mu http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/10/peugeot-car-club...

jlgreco 14y ago

My (new) apartment building has power hookups for EVs. I have seen two or three using them.

refurb 14y ago

Forget the parking stall, what about the big cities (like SF) where a sizable chunk of all cars are parked on the street.

clauretano 14y ago

New apartment buildings under construction that want to game the LEED system are always looking for ways to get points. Adding a charging station or two to their underground parking garage is an easy way. The trouble is, investing in an electric car you're going to keep for 4-5 years starts making less sense when it means you might be locked into your apartment for just as long.

henrikschroder 14y ago

There are places in the world where these are common: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater Getting electricity out to a parking spot is not a problem, and hasn't been a problem for the last 40 years or so that people have had block heaters.