4 ms·

i've been advocating for developers to unionize for years, and there'd always be a big group saying "we don't need a union". AI-based job displacement will do

i've been advocating for developers to unionize for years, and there'd always be a big group saying "we don't need a union". AI-based job displacement will do wonders for raising class consciousness when it's too late. the best time to unionize is when you don't need a union.

dmitrygr 7mo ago
And do what, what buggy whip unions did?
- parpfish 7mo ago
  The dynamics are different when the demand for the product dies off and there’s no money to pay salaries vs worker productivity increasing and you need fewer workers. Replacing workers will be used to increase profit margins rather than lower prices because there’s no competition to force prices down thanks to monopolistic consolidation
  - satvikpendem 7mo ago
    The demand for the product (software engineers) dies off, therefore a union has no leverage.
satvikpendem 7mo ago
Unions won't do anything for AI based job displacement though, because they don't need you, whether you're in a union or not. I see this going the same way as SAG for example, if AI video or film creation ever gets good enough where a single "director" can make an entire movie themselves with no actors. Unions and indeed any bargaining organization only have leverage when their people are needed, but what happens when the people themselves are needed no longer?
- parpfish 7mo ago
  Well, it’s all probably a moot point now because devs have lost leverage. But the union contracts can help bring some order to the layoff process - which employees get laid off and severance for the others.
  - tavavex 7mo ago
    It would've definitely helped to soften the blow. We can only blame the last generation of devs who did nothing. But if LLMs end up being as useful as claimed, nothing could halt that transition.
ThrowawayR2 7mo ago
Didn't save the U.S. auto industry and it isn't going to save the software industry either.
darth_avocado 7mo ago
> AI-based job displacement will do wonders for raising class consciousness when it's too late. You can’t raise class awareness in other professions that have been undergoing job displacement for decades. Good luck trying to do it among software engineers where self worth rides high and empathy is non existent. They will still be arguing on HN that unionization is a bad idea.
pibaker 7mo ago
When dockworkers went on strikes in 2024, one of their demands was to forbid automation of their jobs. HN responded negatively. How the tables have turned now it is white collar jobs' turn on the chopping block! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41704618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41704618
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  Indeed, I always noticed the same hypocrisy as well, it's only a problem when it affects my livelihood right?

dmitrygr 7mo ago

And do what, what buggy whip unions did?

parpfish 7mo ago
The dynamics are different when the demand for the product dies off and there’s no money to pay salaries vs worker productivity increasing and you need fewer workers. Replacing workers will be used to increase profit margins rather than lower prices because there’s no competition to force prices down thanks to monopolistic consolidation
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  The demand for the product (software engineers) dies off, therefore a union has no leverage.

satvikpendem 7mo ago

Unions won't do anything for AI based job displacement though, because they don't need you, whether you're in a union or not. I see this going the same way as SAG for example, if AI video or film creation ever gets good enough where a single "director" can make an entire movie themselves with no actors. Unions and indeed any bargaining organization only have leverage when their people are needed, but what happens when the people themselves are needed no longer?

parpfish 7mo ago
Well, it’s all probably a moot point now because devs have lost leverage. But the union contracts can help bring some order to the layoff process - which employees get laid off and severance for the others.
- tavavex 7mo ago
  It would've definitely helped to soften the blow. We can only blame the last generation of devs who did nothing. But if LLMs end up being as useful as claimed, nothing could halt that transition.

ThrowawayR2 7mo ago

Didn't save the U.S. auto industry and it isn't going to save the software industry either.

darth_avocado 7mo ago

> AI-based job displacement will do wonders for raising class consciousness when it's too late. You can’t raise class awareness in other professions that have been undergoing job displacement for decades. Good luck trying to do it among software engineers where self worth rides high and empathy is non existent. They will still be arguing on HN that unionization is a bad idea.

pibaker 7mo ago

When dockworkers went on strikes in 2024, one of their demands was to forbid automation of their jobs. HN responded negatively. How the tables have turned now it is white collar jobs' turn on the chopping block! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41704618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41704618

satvikpendem 7mo ago
Indeed, I always noticed the same hypocrisy as well, it's only a problem when it affects my livelihood right?