4 ms·

> unlike all other US wars since Korea, the US can't end this war by pulling out From what I read in Kissinger’s Diplomacy, Vietnam was also a war they couldn’

by mikrl 7mo ago

> unlike all other US wars since Korea, the US can't end this war by pulling out From what I read in Kissinger’s Diplomacy, Vietnam was also a war they couldn’t just pull out of if they wanted to. The public wanted deescalation, but the Americans under Nixon had to escalate the war to get enough of an advantage to pull out without it being a bloodbath. Hence part of Nixon’s infamy: he defied public opinion and escalated an unpopular war, precisely to end it more cleanly.

roenxi 7mo ago
That sounds kinda stupid. These days when someone says something ridiculous but pro-war it generally turns out they are just lying through their teeth and just not being honest about their motivations (eg, getting kickbacks or they're worried about tactical political issues). It seems more than likely that when Kissinger writes that we're reading someone being dishonest. In addition, I'm struggling with the idea that Kissinger of all people cared enough about what happened to Vietnamese people for it to affect policy. He was the sort who would have no difficulty at all allowing bloodbaths to happen if he thought that was advantageous. His wiki page suggests, in fact, that he did do exactly that a few times.
- mikrl 7mo ago
  It’s not pro or anti war, it’s realpolitik. Neither Nixon nor Kissinger wanted to be in Vietnam, but again, if they evacuated in 1969 it would have been a bloodbath of American soldiers I think is the point you missed. The communists had a decisive advantage until the Americans escalated the war to a ceasefire then pulled out in the mid 1970s.
  - roenxi 7mo ago
    Did he claim war was peace and slavery was freedom on the way through? When I say that sounds incredible, I mean that in the sense it is difficult to link it with credibility. That argument's conclusion is that keeping troops in an active warzone will prevent them getting injured, and being driven out of a country represents the fruit of erasing the opponent's decisive advantage. With pretzel-logic of that magnitude that anything is possible. There is a much easier conclusion which is Kissinger was making things up because he'd look like a real monster if he honestly said it was just stupid policy.
  - Hikikomori 7mo ago
    If they didn't want go be in Vietnam maybe Nixon should not have sabotaged the peace talks.

by mikrl 7mo ago

roenxi 7mo ago

That sounds kinda stupid. These days when someone says something ridiculous but pro-war it generally turns out they are just lying through their teeth and just not being honest about their motivations (eg, getting kickbacks or they're worried about tactical political issues). It seems more than likely that when Kissinger writes that we're reading someone being dishonest. In addition, I'm struggling with the idea that Kissinger of all people cared enough about what happened to Vietnamese people for it to affect policy. He was the sort who would have no difficulty at all allowing bloodbaths to happen if he thought that was advantageous. His wiki page suggests, in fact, that he did do exactly that a few times.

mikrl 7mo ago
It’s not pro or anti war, it’s realpolitik. Neither Nixon nor Kissinger wanted to be in Vietnam, but again, if they evacuated in 1969 it would have been a bloodbath of American soldiers I think is the point you missed. The communists had a decisive advantage until the Americans escalated the war to a ceasefire then pulled out in the mid 1970s.
- roenxi 7mo ago
  Did he claim war was peace and slavery was freedom on the way through? When I say that sounds incredible, I mean that in the sense it is difficult to link it with credibility. That argument's conclusion is that keeping troops in an active warzone will prevent them getting injured, and being driven out of a country represents the fruit of erasing the opponent's decisive advantage. With pretzel-logic of that magnitude that anything is possible. There is a much easier conclusion which is Kissinger was making things up because he'd look like a real monster if he honestly said it was just stupid policy.
- Hikikomori 7mo ago
  If they didn't want go be in Vietnam maybe Nixon should not have sabotaged the peace talks.