3 ms·

What exactly would the goal of this change be?

by thfuran 8mo ago

kayo_20211030 8mo ago
Ultimately, you ask the student, in one audited test, to demonstrate that they've absorbed the essence of the course material and have developed some level of mastery.
- thfuran 8mo ago
  Okay, so the system is designed not to educate but to minimize the time required to determine whether students somehow stumbled into an education?
  - jazzyjackson 8mo ago
    ??? Do you only learn when you’re being graded?
    - Retric 8mo ago
      If the change is not designed to educate the student, then the point isn’t education. As a general rule when changing complex systems, you sacrifice what you aren’t trying to optimize. If you make a random change to a car without consideration for gas mileage it’s very likely to reduce gas mileage.
      - jazzyjackson 8mo ago
        Schools are not merely in the business of maximizing education, they have their own prestige to uphold, and they would like to give degrees with their name on it to students who have actually upheld their end of the contract. (The other side of that contract is, kids are not merely attending schools to learn, but to earn a degree that carries some degree of prestige)
jazzyjackson 8mo ago
To have end of semester grades be determined by work that is done by the student, not through weekly assignments where it’s trivial to cheat
- jupp0r 8mo ago
  And what would the goal of that be? I thought the goal of education was... education. The grading is not goal in itself. Will this really motivate kids to do better?
  - kayo_20211030 8mo ago
    It's to prove that a student is actually educated and has a firm grasp of the course material. If one gets an A every week on AI-assisted submissions, can one make such a claim? And can a teacher make the claim that they've achieved any actual education of the student? A grade, on a single proctored test, is a crude metric, but at least it would be a brutally fair one.
- thfuran 8mo ago
  To what end? Not cheating on the weekly assignments is surely more beneficial to learning than cheating on them is, but I don’t see how removing the assignments altogether would help students learn.
  - kayo_20211030 8mo ago
    If you nail the one exam, you get an A+. If you fail it, you get an F. In between, you get what your score says you get.
    - thfuran 8mo ago
      I understand the proposed grading system but not the reason for selecting that particular system.
      - 8mo ago

What exactly would the goal of this change be?

by thfuran 8mo ago

What exactly would the goal of this change be?

kayo_20211030 8mo ago

Ultimately, you ask the student, in one audited test, to demonstrate that they've absorbed the essence of the course material and have developed some level of mastery.

thfuran 8mo ago
Okay, so the system is designed not to educate but to minimize the time required to determine whether students somehow stumbled into an education?
- jazzyjackson 8mo ago
  ??? Do you only learn when you’re being graded?
  - Retric 8mo ago
    If the change is not designed to educate the student, then the point isn’t education. As a general rule when changing complex systems, you sacrifice what you aren’t trying to optimize. If you make a random change to a car without consideration for gas mileage it’s very likely to reduce gas mileage.
    - jazzyjackson 8mo ago
      Schools are not merely in the business of maximizing education, they have their own prestige to uphold, and they would like to give degrees with their name on it to students who have actually upheld their end of the contract. (The other side of that contract is, kids are not merely attending schools to learn, but to earn a degree that carries some degree of prestige)

jazzyjackson 8mo ago

To have end of semester grades be determined by work that is done by the student, not through weekly assignments where it’s trivial to cheat

jupp0r 8mo ago
And what would the goal of that be? I thought the goal of education was... education. The grading is not goal in itself. Will this really motivate kids to do better?
- kayo_20211030 8mo ago
  It's to prove that a student is actually educated and has a firm grasp of the course material. If one gets an A every week on AI-assisted submissions, can one make such a claim? And can a teacher make the claim that they've achieved any actual education of the student? A grade, on a single proctored test, is a crude metric, but at least it would be a brutally fair one.
thfuran 8mo ago
To what end? Not cheating on the weekly assignments is surely more beneficial to learning than cheating on them is, but I don’t see how removing the assignments altogether would help students learn.
- kayo_20211030 8mo ago
  If you nail the one exam, you get an A+. If you fail it, you get an F. In between, you get what your score says you get.
  - thfuran 8mo ago
    I understand the proposed grading system but not the reason for selecting that particular system.
    - 8mo ago