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I wasn't talking about historic emissions. I was talking about the current state of affairs, and in particular, the projections over the next few years, as this

by cbeach 7mo ago

I wasn't talking about historic emissions. I was talking about the current state of affairs, and in particular, the projections over the next few years, as this is what's relevant. I'm not interested in political judgements of "past guilt." I'm interested in the trends that will matter for our childrens' future.

triceratops 7mo ago
It isn't "past guilt". That CO2 hasn't gone anywhere. It's warming our world today. That's what's affecting our children's future. If you don't want to "talk about historic emissions" then there's no point talking about China or India's emissions yesterday either. Or the day before that. Hell leave out the last 5 minutes too. Just talk about each instant. That's clearly idiotic but it's the obvious conclusion if we accept your premise that "historic emissions" don't matter. Today's emissions are tomorrow's "historic emissions" and all historic emissions warm the planet equally.
- cbeach 7mo ago
  If you understand the trends over the last decade, and the projections of the next decade, you'll understand why the actions of China and India will have significantly more impact than the actions of the West. That's why for those of us that truly care about the environment (as opposed to politics), are focussing on what we can do about China and India, as opposed to pointlessly self-flagellating about the last 100 years.
  - triceratops 7mo ago
    What can you do about China and India? Are you Indian or Chinese? Do you live there? They're already working on the problem. They don't have oil. They're poor. They're more exposed to climate change's consequences than any Western or developed country. Becoming energy independent as cheaply as possible - which means renewables in 2026 - is a national security priority for them. Tend your own garden. The developed world's past and current actions have done and continue to do harm. Work on that. If you want to push India and China to go faster, lobby your politicians to tariff high carbon emitters and subsidize developing countries' rollout of clean energy. To be clear it has to be both. That's all you can do about emissions outside your country. It doesn't matter where emissions are reduced. They all count equally, home or abroad. Those of us who truly care about the environment (as opposed to politics) understand this. Above all don't ever vote for politicians that deny human-caused climate change.
    - cbeach 7mo ago
      > They're poor. China is a nuclear-armed superpower with the largest Navy in the World. > The developed world's past and current actions have done and continue to do harm. Work on that. If you want to push India and China to go faster, lobby your politicians to tariff high carbon emitters and subsidize developing countries' rollout of clean energy. To be clear it has to be both. That's all you can do about emissions outside your country. That's all we can do, is it? I don't think so! It is through deliberate Western actions and inactions that we have allowed our own production capacity to be replaced by production capacity in China, a country that cares little for human rights, workers rights and environmental standards. It is through decisive economic action, like America's tarrifs that we can quickly bring production capacity back to the West. This is already happening at pace, with huge inward investment in American factories, which will use cutting edge automation and will create many, many jobs. Not only is this a vital geo political win (consider China's aggression towards Hong Kong, Taiwan and its neighbours in the South China Sea), but it is also a win for the working classes in the West, who have seen their opportunities torn up by globalist leaders in the West.
      - triceratops 7mo ago
        Now who's talking politics? I didn't hear anything about actually reducing emissions. I guess that isn't surprising given the lies you started this thread with...

by cbeach 7mo ago

triceratops 7mo ago

It isn't "past guilt". That CO2 hasn't gone anywhere. It's warming our world today. That's what's affecting our children's future. If you don't want to "talk about historic emissions" then there's no point talking about China or India's emissions yesterday either. Or the day before that. Hell leave out the last 5 minutes too. Just talk about each instant. That's clearly idiotic but it's the obvious conclusion if we accept your premise that "historic emissions" don't matter. Today's emissions are tomorrow's "historic emissions" and all historic emissions warm the planet equally.

cbeach 7mo ago
If you understand the trends over the last decade, and the projections of the next decade, you'll understand why the actions of China and India will have significantly more impact than the actions of the West. That's why for those of us that truly care about the environment (as opposed to politics), are focussing on what we can do about China and India, as opposed to pointlessly self-flagellating about the last 100 years.
- triceratops 7mo ago
  What can you do about China and India? Are you Indian or Chinese? Do you live there? They're already working on the problem. They don't have oil. They're poor. They're more exposed to climate change's consequences than any Western or developed country. Becoming energy independent as cheaply as possible - which means renewables in 2026 - is a national security priority for them. Tend your own garden. The developed world's past and current actions have done and continue to do harm. Work on that. If you want to push India and China to go faster, lobby your politicians to tariff high carbon emitters and subsidize developing countries' rollout of clean energy. To be clear it has to be both. That's all you can do about emissions outside your country. It doesn't matter where emissions are reduced. They all count equally, home or abroad. Those of us who truly care about the environment (as opposed to politics) understand this. Above all don't ever vote for politicians that deny human-caused climate change.
  - cbeach 7mo ago
    > They're poor. China is a nuclear-armed superpower with the largest Navy in the World. > The developed world's past and current actions have done and continue to do harm. Work on that. If you want to push India and China to go faster, lobby your politicians to tariff high carbon emitters and subsidize developing countries' rollout of clean energy. To be clear it has to be both. That's all you can do about emissions outside your country. That's all we can do, is it? I don't think so! It is through deliberate Western actions and inactions that we have allowed our own production capacity to be replaced by production capacity in China, a country that cares little for human rights, workers rights and environmental standards. It is through decisive economic action, like America's tarrifs that we can quickly bring production capacity back to the West. This is already happening at pace, with huge inward investment in American factories, which will use cutting edge automation and will create many, many jobs. Not only is this a vital geo political win (consider China's aggression towards Hong Kong, Taiwan and its neighbours in the South China Sea), but it is also a win for the working classes in the West, who have seen their opportunities torn up by globalist leaders in the West.
    - triceratops 7mo ago
      Now who's talking politics? I didn't hear anything about actually reducing emissions. I guess that isn't surprising given the lies you started this thread with...