4 ms·

Ok but for most people work hours are dictated by a shared clock (and many daily activities as well) so... It becomes a coordination problem if we don't all agr

Ok but for most people work hours are dictated by a shared clock (and many daily activities as well) so... It becomes a coordination problem if we don't all agree on what time it is in each locale.

bigstrat2003 8mo ago
I appreciate the coordination problem here, but I do think that states are making it harder than it needs to be. The federal government doesn't need to be involved. Each state can decide on their own how to coordinate this, it does not need to be the entire nation (and indeed it already isn't, as the examples of AZ and HI show). Considering that one of the biggest problems in our country today is trying to run more and more at the federal level instead of at the state level, it's really silly to add to that pile.
- gbear605 8mo ago
  The federal government constrains what states are allowed to do, so it has to be decided at the federal government. AZ and HI got legal exceptions long ago.
  - toast0 8mo ago
    As I understand it, any state is welcome to keep standard time all year, as AZ and HI do, without dispensation from the federal government. Changing time zones or keeping permanent daylight time requires a dispensation. It is my firm belief that state legislatures have voted to keep permanent daylight time as a way to not actually change anything while telling constituents that they're doing stuff.
- acheron 8mo ago
  No, the law is that states can decide to not implement DST at all, but they can’t decide to have it permanently. At one point a couple New England states were looking at this, but for that reason it would have been implemented by moving to a different time zone: year round AST rather than year round EDT. (Which are both UTC-4.) That said, I think states need federal permission to move time zones, too.
- brianjking 8mo ago
  Uniform time act of 1966 prevents this being set at the state level outside of remaining forever in standard time.
kelseyfrog 8mo ago
Let the market decide. If it's worth it to some people, then they'll pay for the privilege of doing so. Right now, the revealed preference is that there is zero demand for it.
- Kinrany 8mo ago
  Markets don't solve coordination problems
  - kelseyfrog 8mo ago
    What are you talking about? Markets solve the distribution and valuation coordination problem by price signaling. That's the whole shtick.
    - mindslight 8mo ago
      Markets are a heuristic for solving some computationally hard problems. Heuristics get stuck in local optima. Overcoming local optima is presumably what GP meant by coordination problem.
- DangitBobby 8mo ago
  What does that mean? People pay for it to be light out at 6 PM, or we bid on what time sunset is? What does this problem look like on a market? And by what metric is there zero demand to solve the time-change problem?
csa 8mo ago
> Ok but for most people work hours are dictated by a shared clock (and many daily activities as well) so... Obviously request a reasonable accommodation and sue if you don’t get it. /s

Ok but for most people work hours are dictated by a shared clock (and many daily activities as well) so... It becomes a coordination problem if we don't all agree on what time it is in each locale.

bigstrat2003 8mo ago

I appreciate the coordination problem here, but I do think that states are making it harder than it needs to be. The federal government doesn't need to be involved. Each state can decide on their own how to coordinate this, it does not need to be the entire nation (and indeed it already isn't, as the examples of AZ and HI show). Considering that one of the biggest problems in our country today is trying to run more and more at the federal level instead of at the state level, it's really silly to add to that pile.

gbear605 8mo ago
The federal government constrains what states are allowed to do, so it has to be decided at the federal government. AZ and HI got legal exceptions long ago.
- toast0 8mo ago
  As I understand it, any state is welcome to keep standard time all year, as AZ and HI do, without dispensation from the federal government. Changing time zones or keeping permanent daylight time requires a dispensation. It is my firm belief that state legislatures have voted to keep permanent daylight time as a way to not actually change anything while telling constituents that they're doing stuff.
acheron 8mo ago
No, the law is that states can decide to not implement DST at all, but they can’t decide to have it permanently. At one point a couple New England states were looking at this, but for that reason it would have been implemented by moving to a different time zone: year round AST rather than year round EDT. (Which are both UTC-4.) That said, I think states need federal permission to move time zones, too.
brianjking 8mo ago
Uniform time act of 1966 prevents this being set at the state level outside of remaining forever in standard time.

kelseyfrog 8mo ago

Let the market decide. If it's worth it to some people, then they'll pay for the privilege of doing so. Right now, the revealed preference is that there is zero demand for it.

Kinrany 8mo ago
Markets don't solve coordination problems
- kelseyfrog 8mo ago
  What are you talking about? Markets solve the distribution and valuation coordination problem by price signaling. That's the whole shtick.
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    Markets are a heuristic for solving some computationally hard problems. Heuristics get stuck in local optima. Overcoming local optima is presumably what GP meant by coordination problem.
DangitBobby 8mo ago
What does that mean? People pay for it to be light out at 6 PM, or we bid on what time sunset is? What does this problem look like on a market? And by what metric is there zero demand to solve the time-change problem?

csa 8mo ago

> Ok but for most people work hours are dictated by a shared clock (and many daily activities as well) so... Obviously request a reasonable accommodation and sue if you don’t get it. /s