5 ms·
Article is mainly about the Baltics, but I always wondered what Italians ate before tomatoes came from the Americas.
by thisismyweakarm 7mo ago
Article is mainly about the Baltics, but I always wondered what Italians ate before tomatoes came from the Americas.
- throwaway110022 7mo agoPasta alla genovese is one such dish, it resembles modern ragu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genovese_sauce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genovese_sauce That being said I think the ubiquitousness of tomato sauce even in modern Italian cuisine is overestimated.
- card_zero 7mo agoOnions, carrots, and celery, there you have it. I was trying to find out what renaissance celebrity chef Bartolomeo Scappi typically did for sauce, but I'm not sure. I think mostly meat broth. This tortellini here has a sort of Christmas spices stuffing with nutmeg, cloves, cinnamon, and raisins ... and marjoram and mint and rosewater and saffron ... and sugar and parmesan on top. In meat broth. https://www.theeternaltable.com/historical-recipes/tortellini-circa-1570 https://www.theeternaltable.com/historical-recipes/tortellin...
- Renaud 7mo ago> Onions, carrots, and celery This is also a major base of French cuisine and called Mirepoix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirepoix?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirepoix?wprov=sfti1
- huhkerrf 7mo agoIn Cajun food, bell peppers replace carrots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity_(cooking) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity_(cooking)
- Renaud 7mo agoFascinating to see that Mirepoix is such and old base that it was imported into the new continent and adapted with what was available locally!
- thih9 7mo agoIf you’re interested in what ancient romans ate, that seems well documented. Bread, olives (and olive oil), cheese, meat, fish, fruit, nuts, wine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_ancient_Rome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_ancient_Rome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apicius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apicius
- hedgehog 7mo agoI keep hoping I'll be able to get my hands on some silphium to see what it's like.
- recursivecaveat 7mo agoTheir giant mound of 53 million olive oil amphorae has always fascinated me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Testaccio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Testaccio 20 liters of oil per person annually.
- malfist 7mo agoThat is an amazing read, thank you for sharing. Not often you see a landfill for welfare recipients turned into a holy place that the popes visit and wealthy people store their wine
- analog31 7mo agoOr Europeans before potatoes.
- zppln 7mo agoI heard turnips used to be all the rage.
- throwup238 7mo agoAlthough it should be noted that modern turnip varieties are significantly more flavorful and sweet than pre-Columbian exchange era turnips. The old varieties were usually very bland so it didn’t take much for another tuber to displace it.
- hedgehog 7mo agoOr peppers. Hungary without paprika!
- davidgay 7mo agoNot to mention India without the spicy peppers...
- keiferski 7mo agoThe majority of Italian food doesn’t actually use tomatoes. That impression is mostly because internationally-known Italian foods tend to use tomatoes (pizza for example.)
- alkyon 7mo agoPizza like its predecessor Focaccia (panis focacius in Roman times) was initially tomato-less. Even today many pizzerias offer pizza bianca in their menus
- burgreblast 7mo agomelanzana aka Aubergine aka eggplant
- ginko 7mo agoHonestly I find the impact of the Columbian exchange on cuisine of the old world overblown. Tomatoes potatoes and corn a sure are great, but you can do without them. Italian cuisine was different but most of the modern elements were in place. I'd say the role of tomatoes in Italian cooking isn't as big as people make it out to be. On the other hand it's almost impossible to imagine what food was like in the Americas before Columbus. No wheat, no pork/beef/chicken, no dairy, no onions, no cabbage, no oranges/apples/figs, any citrus and much much more.
- lava_pidgeon 7mo agoDepends on the area. German speaking areas and Eastern Europe do use lots of potato. Even the collagial name for German is potato
- ginko 7mo agoI'm Austrian myself. There's plenty of potato dumplings etc., but they're just variants of other flour/cheese based dumplings. Potatoes are important but certainly not indispensable. Compare that to pork for instance. Remove that and you've removed like 50% of Austrian cuisine.
- mmooss 7mo ago> no dairy They couldn't find one mammal from which to obtain milk? It's a pretty obvious thing to try, for obvious reasons.
- AlotOfReading 7mo agoThe vast majority of the human population is lactose intolerant, both historically and today. Genetically intolerant populations in South and Central Asia have microbiotic help with their dairy-heavy diets, but for people who didn't spend thousands of years developing a culture around it, dairy is just a quick road to an upset stomach and/or food poisoning.
- 7mo ago
- jasonwatkinspdx 7mo agoMy understanding is a lot of northern Italian recipes are basically the same as their pre colonial versions, like ragu bianco.
- antonymoose 7mo agoThere is a YouTube channel and Substack called “Forgotten Italian Classics” that explores old regional specialties. This might be up your alley.