5 ms·

Apple Used to Design Its Laptops for Repairability

48 points by wrxd 7mo ago

paozac 7mo ago
Planned obsolescence is sure at play here, but I blame the design choices of Jony Ive and his team (thinness above all).
adampunk 7mo ago
I have owned four Apple laptops since 2005. The first one I got was the first Intel MacBook Pro. The last one I have is an M1 MacBook Air. The repairability score of these laptops has dropped linearly; I could with a guide and some dedicated tools, completely disassemble and reassemble the 2005 laptop. I would be a fool to try that with the MacBook Air. That’s in line with what this article is saying, but I would be remiss if I did not say that the durability of those laptops has gone up inverse to the repairability. The 2020 M1 MacBook Air is one of the most durable machines I’ve ever bought from Apple. I strongly suspect that this trade-off of durability and repairability is real. I should also point out that I needed to disassemble and reassemble the 2005 MacBook Pro because Apple screwed up the manufacturing. I had to take the whole computer apart and replace the thermal paste because they had put on too much. A later machine I had to replace the battery. I have not had to open up the last two that I bought. It was cool and fun and scary to open that machine up and have to reassemble it and hope that it would work again, but I don’t really want to do that with a machine that I depend on. I would much rather never have to do that. It’s possible that this, and not planned obsolescence, is what is driving things. If it is planned obsolescence, they’re doing a really bad job of obsoleting my six-year-old computer.
- chocochunks 7mo ago
  What's a 2005 MacBook Air? Apple has had lots of poorly built machines, the infamous butterfly keyboard, the multiple instances of widespread GPU failure. In my immediate family they are also the only brand to have the motherboard straight up die twice, granted it was after a few years but the Thinkpads keep on trucking...
  - adampunk 7mo ago
    Sorry that was a typo, it’s referring to the same 2005 machine I mentioned in the first paragraph.
lapcat 7mo ago
For me, a replaceable battery is the most important factor. With my level of usage, it's not a question of if but rather when I'll need to replace my MacBook Pro battery. It used to be so damn easy with my 2006 MBP. Pop the old one out, pop a new one in, literally seconds to replace. You could even carry an extra battery with you when traveling. Now battery replacement is a giant PITA. And Apple wants you to mail the machine to them and be without it for days instead of getting onsite same-day replacement. I hate this situation. Apple desktops also used to be more repairable. I remember Apple sending me an iMac G5 midplane, which was basically the "guts" of the computer, to replace at home. You could do fan and power supply replacement too.
chocochunks 7mo ago
It's bit funny to use the iBook G3 as an example. While some parts are easy to remove it has a notoriously difficult HDD replacement process.
- dangus 7mo ago
  Yeah, shows you how bad the present situation is. I would say that Apple never specifically built computers with repairability in mind save for your occasional Power Mac G3 type of model that was specifically meant for professional users installing specialized third party hardware. No, it was more like, that’s just how computers used to be built. The only way to build a computer was to get a hard drive from Toshiba and screw it in. Sure, occasionally you had a standout like the polycarbonate MacBook with removable battery and drive/RAM right behind an easily accessible panel. I’m sure at some point an engineer thought about upgrades and repairs and corporate management didn’t mind. I think Lenovo even talked about their iFixit partnership in a similar way where they discussed how you’re under pressures that are really more important: you’re trying to design something and get it out the door in the right form factor and you are thinking about how you’re putting it together. Even if you want the computer to be repairable it’s always down below #1 on your list on priorities even if you don’t mean to specifically prevent people from repairing and upgrading the system.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
- duskwuff 7mo ago
  And that was an extremely common repair on the system - possibly the most common one. Early-2000s laptop hard disks were pretty fragile; one bad fall could easily crash the drive. I think iFixit might also be wrong about the Airport card. IIRC, those were socketed for regulatory reasons, not so that you could install your own.
sandreas 7mo ago
I'm a fan of repairable devices. And I passionately hate Apple for their Anti-Consumer strategies like proprietary SSD connectors, lid closing sensors and all this nonsense. However while planning to buy a framework I realized that some oft Apples decisions have techical reasons... Lpcamm2 is great, but not fast enough for unified memory and eats up more battery. Easy repairability is awesome, but has an impact not only look and feel, but also sound design and durability (dust, etc.). Thinkpads solved this quite well, though. Moreover requiring certified replacements can also prevent scam and can be seen as anti theft. However, I'm not saying Apple is great, but at least not all their decisions are only to make more money. I personally am and keep being a Linux man, so never buying an Apple device again until they make a new iPod Nano ;-)
- dangus 7mo ago
  I think this is a weak argument. The vast majority of popular PC laptops sold have soldered RAM and socketed SSDs and that situation is a huge improvement over what Apple delivers. Most people just want to be able to upgrade storage or at least configure storage at pricing that’s somewhat close to market value. And then you’ve got a whole other segment of PCs that use dedicated graphics and therefore don’t even need soldered RAM at all. You don’t need super fast RAM bandwidth unless you are using high-end integrated graphics. In that respect, there are a lot of thin and light gaming laptops that give you socketed RAM and that is very obviously consumer friendly. If Framework offered a soldered RAM board it would still be a vast improvement over Apple’s offering. You could say, hey, I want the fast integrated graphics, I’ll choose the soldered RAM version. Or, I will take mid-range integrated graphics and keep my socketed RAM board. You’d still benefit from their cross-compatibility of boards, support for standalone board usage (I.e., upgrade your board in your laptop and use the old one as a server or desktop computer). You’d still have modular SSD storage and WiFi chips which you don’t even have to buy a Framework to get. Hell, many MacBook competitors have dual SSD slots and there’s no discernible downside to it. Mac SSDs aren’t faster than top end PCI-E gen 4/5 hardware. Citation needed for impact on look and feel and sound design/durability. My framework has zero deck flex, it’s an aluminum chassis just like a MacBook, and yeah the speakers suck but that’s just because Framework doesn’t own the world’s most successful audio company. As you alluded to, Lenovo makes some repairable systems that have top tier laptop speakers. Plenty of computers with great MacBook-level fit and finish let you access the SSD at bare minimum. E.g., the latest generation Dell XPS. Theft prevention and replacement hardware scams is on the bottom of my list. Isn’t this obviously just a convenient excuse to squeeze third party repair shops? One of the easiest ways to prevent repair shop scams would be to make the computer so easy to repair that I don’t need a repair shop.
0xy 7mo ago
This is an incredibly cynical and naive take so forgive me: if repairability is such a desirable trait why are all repairable laptops utter garbage? Even Framework has major quality issues. Thinkpads aren't like they used to be. Every single one has a TERRIBLE keyboard, TERRIBLE trackpad. Mediocre screen. Bad battery life. In principal, repairability seems good. But the least repairable laptop is also the best quality.
- Rebelgecko 7mo ago
  TBF, in general most laptops are garbage.
  - evilduck 7mo ago
    That's not really being "fair" though. I think the point is, if everyone who cares about "repairability" constantly chooses garbage for what's usually a least used attribute of the purchase, does their opinion on any other attribute even matter? It's like choosing the most repairable food to eat.
- toast0 7mo ago
  For some items fit and finish can be better if things are assembled with glue/etc rather than screws; and certainly a lot less of volume. Great as long as it doesn't need to be opened. Keyboard, Trackpad, Screen are a mix of cost and taste. Apple has streamlined product offerings and each model has significant volume. Other vendors either don't have much volume (Framework) or get their volume through a multitude of models and options (Lenovo, HP, Dell), they can't justify engineering costs to get a touchpad made for them, and the Apple one isn't available. Thinkpads models have a spectrum of repairability, so Lenovo probably has some market insights there... they do tend to offer things in less and more servicable generation after generation. Apple can do well on battery life because they own the hardware design, the cpu design, the firmware, the OS, and at least some of the userland and they have only a handful of models to work with. And they have a roughly incomparable product; it's always Apples vs Oranges, so they can decide to take a 1% perf hit for a 2% battery life gain... whereas if the Lenovo Ryzen Max 390 HyperFighting laptop is 1% slower than the Dell laptop with the same chip, that's bad PR, even if there's 2% battery savings. Microsoft's own brand laptops could maybe drive better integration of OS and system, but really haven't. Microsoft is busy selling their Cloud, and stuffing Clippy into Notepad. I suspect they don't really want to compete too hard against OEMs anyway.

48 points by wrxd 7mo ago

Planned obsolescence is sure at play here, but I blame the design choices of Jony Ive and his team (thinness above all).

adampunk 7mo ago

I have owned four Apple laptops since 2005. The first one I got was the first Intel MacBook Pro. The last one I have is an M1 MacBook Air. The repairability score of these laptops has dropped linearly; I could with a guide and some dedicated tools, completely disassemble and reassemble the 2005 laptop. I would be a fool to try that with the MacBook Air. That’s in line with what this article is saying, but I would be remiss if I did not say that the durability of those laptops has gone up inverse to the repairability. The 2020 M1 MacBook Air is one of the most durable machines I’ve ever bought from Apple. I strongly suspect that this trade-off of durability and repairability is real. I should also point out that I needed to disassemble and reassemble the 2005 MacBook Pro because Apple screwed up the manufacturing. I had to take the whole computer apart and replace the thermal paste because they had put on too much. A later machine I had to replace the battery. I have not had to open up the last two that I bought. It was cool and fun and scary to open that machine up and have to reassemble it and hope that it would work again, but I don’t really want to do that with a machine that I depend on. I would much rather never have to do that. It’s possible that this, and not planned obsolescence, is what is driving things. If it is planned obsolescence, they’re doing a really bad job of obsoleting my six-year-old computer.

chocochunks 7mo ago
What's a 2005 MacBook Air? Apple has had lots of poorly built machines, the infamous butterfly keyboard, the multiple instances of widespread GPU failure. In my immediate family they are also the only brand to have the motherboard straight up die twice, granted it was after a few years but the Thinkpads keep on trucking...
- adampunk 7mo ago
  Sorry that was a typo, it’s referring to the same 2005 machine I mentioned in the first paragraph.

lapcat 7mo ago

For me, a replaceable battery is the most important factor. With my level of usage, it's not a question of if but rather when I'll need to replace my MacBook Pro battery. It used to be so damn easy with my 2006 MBP. Pop the old one out, pop a new one in, literally seconds to replace. You could even carry an extra battery with you when traveling. Now battery replacement is a giant PITA. And Apple wants you to mail the machine to them and be without it for days instead of getting onsite same-day replacement. I hate this situation. Apple desktops also used to be more repairable. I remember Apple sending me an iMac G5 midplane, which was basically the "guts" of the computer, to replace at home. You could do fan and power supply replacement too.

chocochunks 7mo ago

It's bit funny to use the iBook G3 as an example. While some parts are easy to remove it has a notoriously difficult HDD replacement process.

dangus 7mo ago
Yeah, shows you how bad the present situation is. I would say that Apple never specifically built computers with repairability in mind save for your occasional Power Mac G3 type of model that was specifically meant for professional users installing specialized third party hardware. No, it was more like, that’s just how computers used to be built. The only way to build a computer was to get a hard drive from Toshiba and screw it in. Sure, occasionally you had a standout like the polycarbonate MacBook with removable battery and drive/RAM right behind an easily accessible panel. I’m sure at some point an engineer thought about upgrades and repairs and corporate management didn’t mind. I think Lenovo even talked about their iFixit partnership in a similar way where they discussed how you’re under pressures that are really more important: you’re trying to design something and get it out the door in the right form factor and you are thinking about how you’re putting it together. Even if you want the computer to be repairable it’s always down below #1 on your list on priorities even if you don’t mean to specifically prevent people from repairing and upgrading the system.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
duskwuff 7mo ago
And that was an extremely common repair on the system - possibly the most common one. Early-2000s laptop hard disks were pretty fragile; one bad fall could easily crash the drive. I think iFixit might also be wrong about the Airport card. IIRC, those were socketed for regulatory reasons, not so that you could install your own.

sandreas 7mo ago

I'm a fan of repairable devices. And I passionately hate Apple for their Anti-Consumer strategies like proprietary SSD connectors, lid closing sensors and all this nonsense. However while planning to buy a framework I realized that some oft Apples decisions have techical reasons... Lpcamm2 is great, but not fast enough for unified memory and eats up more battery. Easy repairability is awesome, but has an impact not only look and feel, but also sound design and durability (dust, etc.). Thinkpads solved this quite well, though. Moreover requiring certified replacements can also prevent scam and can be seen as anti theft. However, I'm not saying Apple is great, but at least not all their decisions are only to make more money. I personally am and keep being a Linux man, so never buying an Apple device again until they make a new iPod Nano ;-)

dangus 7mo ago
I think this is a weak argument. The vast majority of popular PC laptops sold have soldered RAM and socketed SSDs and that situation is a huge improvement over what Apple delivers. Most people just want to be able to upgrade storage or at least configure storage at pricing that’s somewhat close to market value. And then you’ve got a whole other segment of PCs that use dedicated graphics and therefore don’t even need soldered RAM at all. You don’t need super fast RAM bandwidth unless you are using high-end integrated graphics. In that respect, there are a lot of thin and light gaming laptops that give you socketed RAM and that is very obviously consumer friendly. If Framework offered a soldered RAM board it would still be a vast improvement over Apple’s offering. You could say, hey, I want the fast integrated graphics, I’ll choose the soldered RAM version. Or, I will take mid-range integrated graphics and keep my socketed RAM board. You’d still benefit from their cross-compatibility of boards, support for standalone board usage (I.e., upgrade your board in your laptop and use the old one as a server or desktop computer). You’d still have modular SSD storage and WiFi chips which you don’t even have to buy a Framework to get. Hell, many MacBook competitors have dual SSD slots and there’s no discernible downside to it. Mac SSDs aren’t faster than top end PCI-E gen 4/5 hardware. Citation needed for impact on look and feel and sound design/durability. My framework has zero deck flex, it’s an aluminum chassis just like a MacBook, and yeah the speakers suck but that’s just because Framework doesn’t own the world’s most successful audio company. As you alluded to, Lenovo makes some repairable systems that have top tier laptop speakers. Plenty of computers with great MacBook-level fit and finish let you access the SSD at bare minimum. E.g., the latest generation Dell XPS. Theft prevention and replacement hardware scams is on the bottom of my list. Isn’t this obviously just a convenient excuse to squeeze third party repair shops? One of the easiest ways to prevent repair shop scams would be to make the computer so easy to repair that I don’t need a repair shop.

0xy 7mo ago

This is an incredibly cynical and naive take so forgive me: if repairability is such a desirable trait why are all repairable laptops utter garbage? Even Framework has major quality issues. Thinkpads aren't like they used to be. Every single one has a TERRIBLE keyboard, TERRIBLE trackpad. Mediocre screen. Bad battery life. In principal, repairability seems good. But the least repairable laptop is also the best quality.

Rebelgecko 7mo ago
TBF, in general most laptops are garbage.
- evilduck 7mo ago
  That's not really being "fair" though. I think the point is, if everyone who cares about "repairability" constantly chooses garbage for what's usually a least used attribute of the purchase, does their opinion on any other attribute even matter? It's like choosing the most repairable food to eat.
toast0 7mo ago
For some items fit and finish can be better if things are assembled with glue/etc rather than screws; and certainly a lot less of volume. Great as long as it doesn't need to be opened. Keyboard, Trackpad, Screen are a mix of cost and taste. Apple has streamlined product offerings and each model has significant volume. Other vendors either don't have much volume (Framework) or get their volume through a multitude of models and options (Lenovo, HP, Dell), they can't justify engineering costs to get a touchpad made for them, and the Apple one isn't available. Thinkpads models have a spectrum of repairability, so Lenovo probably has some market insights there... they do tend to offer things in less and more servicable generation after generation. Apple can do well on battery life because they own the hardware design, the cpu design, the firmware, the OS, and at least some of the userland and they have only a handful of models to work with. And they have a roughly incomparable product; it's always Apples vs Oranges, so they can decide to take a 1% perf hit for a 2% battery life gain... whereas if the Lenovo Ryzen Max 390 HyperFighting laptop is 1% slower than the Dell laptop with the same chip, that's bad PR, even if there's 2% battery savings. Microsoft's own brand laptops could maybe drive better integration of OS and system, but really haven't. Microsoft is busy selling their Cloud, and stuffing Clippy into Notepad. I suspect they don't really want to compete too hard against OEMs anyway.