3 ms·

I bet if residential proxy ips were added to blocklists en masse that those ISPs would rather quickly clean up their network.

sandworm101 7mo ago
If residential IPs were blocked, cutting off innocent users from services as IPs rotate, customers would bring lawsuits against ISPs and cell providers. Blocked IPs would have to be parked. Impacted users would rush to VPNs and other privacy tools, damaging the ad industry that is the backbone of most big tech. Everyone would rather deal with today's problems than that chaos.
- Mindwipe 7mo ago
  I hate to break it to you but services have been routinely blocking residential IPs associated with being part of VPN endpoints for the better part of a decade now. Akamai will even sell you (granted they are just reselling another vendors product) a database to do this.
  - sandworm101 7mo ago
    The number of residential IPs acting as endpoints is vanishingly small. It isn't an issue. The number of residential IPs that are part of botnets is something else. They are not blocked. Their bad traffic might be, but nobody cuts of an IP simply because a machine on it got a virus once upon a time. If they did, we would all have to negotiate for a new IP every time a machine was compromised.
- akerl_ 7mo ago
  > customers would bring lawsuits against ISPs and cell providers What would the case be against ISPs here?
  - sandworm101 7mo ago
    Failure to provide the contracted service. If you pay for internet, but they aasign you an IP that is already blacklisted, you are not getting internet.
    - akerl_ 7mo ago
      I don’t see any way for that to work out. Your ISP is not responsible for ensuring that the connection they give you works to access any particular sites (see, for example, all the sites that already implement geo-fencing to block or alter the experience based on country of origin).
      - sandworm101 7mo ago
        And if the blacklist is on the upstream provider? So you literally cannot send packets beyond your residential ISP? Have fun surfing the comcast homepage.
        akerl_ 7mo ago
        It’s not clear what you’re trying to say. Nobody’s arguing that 3rd parties blocking ASs, ISPs, regions, etc is fun for the people who get blocked. But that doesn’t somehow create a civil case against your ISP for not acting in response to the 3rd party action.
    - gzread 7mo ago
      So if I drive my Toyota to the corner store and they tell me to go away, I'm not welcome, I should sue Toyota for failing to get me to the store?
JasonADrury 7mo ago
No? The companies which are now losing sales because a bunch of their customers are blocked would simply stop using those lists.
pigggg 7mo ago
There are "live" residential proxy IP lists you can purchase today from a variety of companies. Various companies defending use them as an additional data point when making a call to throw a captcha or block. ISPs have been fairly silent on the topic (it is a hot topic for many of them due to the kimwolf botnet leveraging resiproxies to function and launching attacks). In many cases, being a resiproxy is a violation of the TOS - but they struggle with enforcement and how to do customer engagement given that most resiproxies are loaded without the end user knowing. So you have an educational problem - how does an end user figure out how to remove it. Some ISPs could null the resiproxy c2 infra - and a few have played in that space. Home router vendors could play their part and notify users exactly which device is connecting out and give them an option to isolate, etc.

sandworm101 7mo ago

If residential IPs were blocked, cutting off innocent users from services as IPs rotate, customers would bring lawsuits against ISPs and cell providers. Blocked IPs would have to be parked. Impacted users would rush to VPNs and other privacy tools, damaging the ad industry that is the backbone of most big tech. Everyone would rather deal with today's problems than that chaos.

Mindwipe 7mo ago
I hate to break it to you but services have been routinely blocking residential IPs associated with being part of VPN endpoints for the better part of a decade now. Akamai will even sell you (granted they are just reselling another vendors product) a database to do this.
- sandworm101 7mo ago
  The number of residential IPs acting as endpoints is vanishingly small. It isn't an issue. The number of residential IPs that are part of botnets is something else. They are not blocked. Their bad traffic might be, but nobody cuts of an IP simply because a machine on it got a virus once upon a time. If they did, we would all have to negotiate for a new IP every time a machine was compromised.
akerl_ 7mo ago
> customers would bring lawsuits against ISPs and cell providers What would the case be against ISPs here?
- sandworm101 7mo ago
  Failure to provide the contracted service. If you pay for internet, but they aasign you an IP that is already blacklisted, you are not getting internet.
  - akerl_ 7mo ago
    I don’t see any way for that to work out. Your ISP is not responsible for ensuring that the connection they give you works to access any particular sites (see, for example, all the sites that already implement geo-fencing to block or alter the experience based on country of origin).
    - sandworm101 7mo ago
      And if the blacklist is on the upstream provider? So you literally cannot send packets beyond your residential ISP? Have fun surfing the comcast homepage.
      - akerl_ 7mo ago
        It’s not clear what you’re trying to say. Nobody’s arguing that 3rd parties blocking ASs, ISPs, regions, etc is fun for the people who get blocked. But that doesn’t somehow create a civil case against your ISP for not acting in response to the 3rd party action.
  - gzread 7mo ago
    So if I drive my Toyota to the corner store and they tell me to go away, I'm not welcome, I should sue Toyota for failing to get me to the store?

JasonADrury 7mo ago

No? The companies which are now losing sales because a bunch of their customers are blocked would simply stop using those lists.

pigggg 7mo ago

There are "live" residential proxy IP lists you can purchase today from a variety of companies. Various companies defending use them as an additional data point when making a call to throw a captcha or block. ISPs have been fairly silent on the topic (it is a hot topic for many of them due to the kimwolf botnet leveraging resiproxies to function and launching attacks). In many cases, being a resiproxy is a violation of the TOS - but they struggle with enforcement and how to do customer engagement given that most resiproxies are loaded without the end user knowing. So you have an educational problem - how does an end user figure out how to remove it. Some ISPs could null the resiproxy c2 infra - and a few have played in that space. Home router vendors could play their part and notify users exactly which device is connecting out and give them an option to isolate, etc.