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I think both things can simultaneously be true. There is a certain inevitability to technological progress. Once you reach a critical mass of collective knowled

I think both things can simultaneously be true. There is a certain inevitability to technological progress. Once you reach a critical mass of collective knowledge, the resulting "thing" will get developed. If not by you, then by someone else. But also, inevitability is not an argument for complicity. If you personally decide to work on bioweapons, I don't think you can shrug and say "eh, it was going to happen either way". As tech workers, we've really mastered the art of coming up with justifications for what essentially just boils down to "all my friends have gotten rich and now it's my turn". I've met hundreds of sharp engineers from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, etc. None of them could look me straight in the eye and say "yeah, you know, what we're doing with ad tech is actually good". They just always had an explanation along the lines of "it's not that bad, and besides, if we don't do it, someone else will, and we're the good guys here".

godelski 7mo ago
> besides, if we don't do it, someone else will, and we're the good guys here". It's funny that people justify themselves that way considering it's the literal phrase is discussed in every ethics 101 course... and not because a bunch of good people were saying it...
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  If the comments on this website are any indication I'd wager a great many people in tech haven't spent even a single minute of their lives seriously thinking about ethics, nevermind studying ethics in a classroom
  - bdangubic 7mo ago
    - first 10 years of my career, ethics was last thing on my mind - second 10 years of my career, started seriously thinking about ethics - last 10 years of my career (including now) - would not work for Big Tech etc if they gave me 9-digit / year compensation package
    - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
      I guess that's why I'm always angry when I'm reading comments here I know I don't have all the answers, but I minored in philosophy in school. I studied ethics quite a lot and being ethical has always been very important to me I never had 20 years of "let's burn down everything in my way as long as it pays well"
      - user2722 7mo ago
        Do you have privatized healthcare in your country?
        bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        No, I live in a first world country
    - user2722 7mo ago
      That has probably more to do with you bank account digits. I'm on the inverse moral ladder currently, specially as more and more services are privatized (public health here is on fast-track to be americanized).
      - watwut 7mo ago
        I see so many rich people act in awfull manner just to get mote money ... so no. People who make ethical decisions end up with less money on average. But that is it, poor people and low paid people and average paid techies make ethical decisions all the time.
      - bdangubic 7mo ago
        It really did not have anything to do with money. Obviously I make more money now than in my “junior” days. I just did not give a F. I worked for Monsanto, I mean as evil of a company as you’d find (during that time, nothing compared to today’s Big Tech evil). I just honestly did not give a F at all.
- 9dev 7mo ago
  Yep. From Putin to Kim Yong Un, everyone is convinced to be the good guy doing bad things for the right reasons.
  - godelski 7mo ago
    I really believe the biggest lie everyone believes is that evil is only created by those that are evil. That evil is easy to identify. It's that love for simplicity that makes it persist. Were it so easy to identify, as so many claim, then it seems only one of two situations seems likely: most people are evil or most people are unwilling to let evil persist (which may not make them evil, but surely does not make them good). Were evil easy to identify and most people not evil (good or neutral), then surely evil would be easy to eliminate and we wouldn't have a cliché about the road to hell bring paved with good intentions. Evil persists because we believe we'd be evil were we to let it to. The same mechanism for self defense is used even by the worst. For the greater good, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47269344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47269344

godelski 7mo ago

> besides, if we don't do it, someone else will, and we're the good guys here". It's funny that people justify themselves that way considering it's the literal phrase is discussed in every ethics 101 course... and not because a bunch of good people were saying it...

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
If the comments on this website are any indication I'd wager a great many people in tech haven't spent even a single minute of their lives seriously thinking about ethics, nevermind studying ethics in a classroom
- bdangubic 7mo ago
  - first 10 years of my career, ethics was last thing on my mind - second 10 years of my career, started seriously thinking about ethics - last 10 years of my career (including now) - would not work for Big Tech etc if they gave me 9-digit / year compensation package
  - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
    I guess that's why I'm always angry when I'm reading comments here I know I don't have all the answers, but I minored in philosophy in school. I studied ethics quite a lot and being ethical has always been very important to me I never had 20 years of "let's burn down everything in my way as long as it pays well"
    - user2722 7mo ago
      Do you have privatized healthcare in your country?
      - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        No, I live in a first world country
  - user2722 7mo ago
    That has probably more to do with you bank account digits. I'm on the inverse moral ladder currently, specially as more and more services are privatized (public health here is on fast-track to be americanized).
    - watwut 7mo ago
      I see so many rich people act in awfull manner just to get mote money ... so no. People who make ethical decisions end up with less money on average. But that is it, poor people and low paid people and average paid techies make ethical decisions all the time.
    - bdangubic 7mo ago
      It really did not have anything to do with money. Obviously I make more money now than in my “junior” days. I just did not give a F. I worked for Monsanto, I mean as evil of a company as you’d find (during that time, nothing compared to today’s Big Tech evil). I just honestly did not give a F at all.
9dev 7mo ago
Yep. From Putin to Kim Yong Un, everyone is convinced to be the good guy doing bad things for the right reasons.
- godelski 7mo ago
  I really believe the biggest lie everyone believes is that evil is only created by those that are evil. That evil is easy to identify. It's that love for simplicity that makes it persist. Were it so easy to identify, as so many claim, then it seems only one of two situations seems likely: most people are evil or most people are unwilling to let evil persist (which may not make them evil, but surely does not make them good). Were evil easy to identify and most people not evil (good or neutral), then surely evil would be easy to eliminate and we wouldn't have a cliché about the road to hell bring paved with good intentions. Evil persists because we believe we'd be evil were we to let it to. The same mechanism for self defense is used even by the worst. For the greater good, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47269344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47269344