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Let’s not pretend anymore. The uncomfortable truth is that that people in affluent countries don’t want to change their lifestyle. Affluent countries are less
by Kiboneu 7mo ago
Let’s not pretend anymore.
The uncomfortable truth is that that people in affluent countries don’t want to change their lifestyle. Affluent countries are less affected by global warming than countries responsible for a fraction of global emissions. All the emissions from manufacturing follow suit.
- cbeach 7mo ago[flagged]
- michaelt 7mo agoIs China often moved by western ire?
- xracy 7mo agoSaying "The West has deindustrialised" is incredibly disingenuous. The west's consumerism has driven a race-to-the-bottom for pricing of products in China and India.
- cbeach 7mo agoSeeking the cheapest goods is not a practice that's isolated to Westerners. But destroying our own industrial capacity by government policy is certainly something unique to our countries.
- triceratops 7mo ago> India and China’s contribution to CO2 emissions dwarfs the rest of the world Such brazen, bald-faced lies. How do you sleep at night? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-co2-emissions-region https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-co2-emissions-...
- throwaway290 7mo agodo you know how to read that graph? because this graph you linked exactly shows what you call "lies" is true.
- cbeach 7mo agoI wasn't talking about historic emissions. I was talking about the current state of affairs, and in particular, the projections over the next few years, as this is what's relevant. I'm not interested in political judgements of "past guilt." I'm interested in the trends that will matter for our childrens' future.
- triceratops 7mo agoIt isn't "past guilt". That CO2 hasn't gone anywhere. It's warming our world today. That's what's affecting our children's future. If you don't want to "talk about historic emissions" then there's no point talking about China or India's emissions yesterday either. Or the day before that. Hell leave out the last 5 minutes too. Just talk about each instant. That's clearly idiotic but it's the obvious conclusion if we accept your premise that "historic emissions" don't matter. Today's emissions are tomorrow's "historic emissions" and all historic emissions warm the planet equally.
- cbeach 7mo agoIf you understand the trends over the last decade, and the projections of the next decade, you'll understand why the actions of China and India will have significantly more impact than the actions of the West. That's why for those of us that truly care about the environment (as opposed to politics), are focussing on what we can do about China and India, as opposed to pointlessly self-flagellating about the last 100 years.
- triceratops 7mo agoWhat can you do about China and India? Are you Indian or Chinese? Do you live there? They're already working on the problem. They don't have oil. They're poor. They're more exposed to climate change's consequences than any Western or developed country. Becoming energy independent as cheaply as possible - which means renewables in 2026 - is a national security priority for them. Tend your own garden. The developed world's past and current actions have done and continue to do harm. Work on that. If you want to push India and China to go faster, lobby your politicians to tariff high carbon emitters and subsidize developing countries' rollout of clean energy. To be clear it has to be both. That's all you can do about emissions outside your country. It doesn't matter where emissions are reduced. They all count equally, home or abroad. Those of us who truly care about the environment (as opposed to politics) understand this. Above all don't ever vote for politicians that deny human-caused climate change.
- jwrallie 7mo agoIt also includes social pressure, try to have a kid and no car, people will look at you like you are crazy. I even live in a country with great public transportation.
- fasterik 7mo agoIt's not primarily a lifestyle issue, and the problem is no longer primarily developed countries. Per-capita carbon emissions in developed countries have decreased 30% in the past 20 years, and energy demand has remained relatively constant, in fact decreasing slightly in some places due to increases in efficiency. Meanwhile, developing countries like China and India are projected to account for 35-40% of total global emissions in the next decade, far outweighing the impact of individual lifestyle choices in the West. Of course, people should do everything they can to reduce or offset their own emissions. But the solution is going to have to be societal, keeping up with energy demand by adding more nuclear, solar, and wind to the grid.
- budududuroiu 7mo ago> Meanwhile, developing countries like China and India are projected to account for 35-40% of total global emissions in the next decade, far outweighing the impact of individual lifestyle choices in the West. Sure, but that's still mostly driven by Western demand for... Stuff. I'd like to see that share of global emissions if the West was still industrialised and didnt rely on China to be its factory
- fasterik 7mo ago80% of China's manufacturing output is consumed domestically. Of the goods exported from China, only about 15% go to the United States. While that still represents a lot of exports in absolute terms, it's simply false to say that it's "mostly driven by Western demand for stuff".
- neochief 7mo agoI found your claim hard to believe, so I fact checked it, and it turned out mostly correct. Thanks!
- brewdad 7mo agoChina and India currently make up 35% of the global population. So saying they account for 35%of emissions is to be expected.
- yowayb 7mo agoAs a nomad, can confirm. Coming back to America, the scale and quality of materials is remarkable.
- grosswait 7mo agoCould you elaborate on your observations?
- aniviacat 7mo agoThe EU has less than half the emissions per capita compared to the USA. The USA has uniquely high emissions (matched only by a couple oil states). This is not solely explained with affluency.