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As a sci-fi nut, I've often thought that we're unlikely to be able to talk to aliens if we can't even manage a crude dialogue with intelligent animals on earth

As a sci-fi nut, I've often thought that we're unlikely to be able to talk to aliens if we can't even manage a crude dialogue with intelligent animals on earth (not even our closest relatives in the ape family.) Sure, we can instruct a dolphin to put a ball through a hoop, but we've made almost no progress in understanding their speech. Stuff like this[1] suggests that some information is being conveyed between whales, but does it qualify as language? And what about our definition of 'language'? It's not the same as it was a a millennium ago. James Gleick's book "The Information" talks about the fundamental changes in human thought that came about after the development of writing. We think completely differently now that we have a concept of stored ideas. Could it be that writing has made it impossible for us to communicate with animals that don't have it? But a lack of altruism as a possible reason, though? Fascinating. Chimpanzees have developed tool use and even a way of 'teaching' other chimps what they've learned[2]. Is this contradictory? [1]http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9457000/9457855.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9457000/945... [2]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/688904/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/688904/posts

lawtguy 14y ago
My previous understanding was that chimps imitate, but don't teach: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/ape-genius.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/ape-genius.html The article you linked said the chimps were teaching, but was rather vague about how. It seemed to be more focused on the nut cracking behavior, so it's hard to tell if they are actually teaching or just learning by example. As with most other traits, it may be that it's not that other animals don't teach. Instead maybe it's matter of degrees: chimps don't teach much, humans teach a lot. The lack of altruism might explain why chimps mostly don't bother to teach other chimps, even though they have the ability.
- scrumper 14y ago
  > As with most other traits, ... Interesting point, thanks. What's 'teaching', though? Kindergarten is largely imitative. "Play" in the broad sense is imitative.
mc32 14y ago
>Could it be that writing has made it impossible for us to communicate with animals that don't have it? Not an answer to your question, but more a clarification. There are lots and lots of people who do not know how to read or write. I don't think enlisting the help of illiterate people (or societies, the small ones that there are) would be any help in better understanding animals.

lawtguy 14y ago

My previous understanding was that chimps imitate, but don't teach: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/ape-genius.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/ape-genius.html The article you linked said the chimps were teaching, but was rather vague about how. It seemed to be more focused on the nut cracking behavior, so it's hard to tell if they are actually teaching or just learning by example. As with most other traits, it may be that it's not that other animals don't teach. Instead maybe it's matter of degrees: chimps don't teach much, humans teach a lot. The lack of altruism might explain why chimps mostly don't bother to teach other chimps, even though they have the ability.

scrumper 14y ago
> As with most other traits, ... Interesting point, thanks. What's 'teaching', though? Kindergarten is largely imitative. "Play" in the broad sense is imitative.

mc32 14y ago

>Could it be that writing has made it impossible for us to communicate with animals that don't have it? Not an answer to your question, but more a clarification. There are lots and lots of people who do not know how to read or write. I don't think enlisting the help of illiterate people (or societies, the small ones that there are) would be any help in better understanding animals.