5 ms·

This is a relatively new attitude, mostly due to web startups, which are more similar to rock bands than to "real" companies. Since web startups are successful

This is a relatively new attitude, mostly due to web startups, which are more similar to rock bands than to "real" companies. Since web startups are successful due to the number of followers, not the amount of money they make, they had to develop cult-like techniques to attract workers and early adopters. As a result new culture of hipster programmers appeared, which thinks that their way is the only true way.

randomdata 14y ago
I'm not sure I agree. I feel the roots herald from the great education push of the 90s, where we saw a new found hyper-focus on training to specialize to almost the micro level before being worthy of doing any job. In software, that meant being a developer wasn't good enough, you had to be an expert in, say, Perl to be even considered for the job that used that technology. I feel we have more recently started to back away from that mindset as we have realized that general software developers are more valuable than <insert specific technology> specialists, but you still see job postings boasting about the software stack being used as a throwback to the way it was once done. Possibly because the people involved are still largely stuck in the old mindset. The mid-twenties to early-thirties group of developers grew up during that time period, so they see it as just the way it is.
- saraid216 14y ago
  > the great education push of the 90s, where we saw a new found hyper-focus on training to specialize to almost the micro level before being worthy of doing any job This is off-topic, but I'd like to know more about this. Could you give me some keywords to search off, or some links to read, to see what you're talking about?
desireco42 14y ago
Very good point. I would say that younger developers are taught to behave in hipster way as a means to get a good standing with their peers.
zem 14y ago
that is unnecessarily dismissive of an entire class of programmers (who were, let me add, around long before the web startup explosion). focusing on solving the user's problem is a valuable mindset, and is after all what keeps the industry alive, but focusing on solving the programmer's problem is equally valuable, and helps keep the industry productive. at the end of the day, yes, you can take a deep breath or several and crank out tens of thousands of lines of java which do the job perfectly well. but you can also notice that bits of it are far more easily done in jruby or clojure, and publish an article outlining your observations that lets the next person who has the same problem get it done with a lot less work and a lower error-rate, and surely that is worth something too.
robinr 14y ago
Agree so hard. Start a band(startup) in your garage(garage) with four of your talented musician(programmer) buddies, work long hard hours eating ramen for the love of rock music(hipster programming), get a facebook following(twitter/blog following), get an indie record deal(angel funding) then sign a major label deal (VC funding) and then have the record company(VC firm) dictate your musical direction(business decisions) and take most of your royalties(equity) away in exchange for risking the initial advance, which was only a leveraged loan against future earnings anyway. The VC and record label model are similar too. Invest in 100 promising bands(startups) and hopefully 5 of them are successes and 2 hit it out of the park(IPO).

randomdata 14y ago

I'm not sure I agree. I feel the roots herald from the great education push of the 90s, where we saw a new found hyper-focus on training to specialize to almost the micro level before being worthy of doing any job. In software, that meant being a developer wasn't good enough, you had to be an expert in, say, Perl to be even considered for the job that used that technology. I feel we have more recently started to back away from that mindset as we have realized that general software developers are more valuable than <insert specific technology> specialists, but you still see job postings boasting about the software stack being used as a throwback to the way it was once done. Possibly because the people involved are still largely stuck in the old mindset. The mid-twenties to early-thirties group of developers grew up during that time period, so they see it as just the way it is.

saraid216 14y ago
> the great education push of the 90s, where we saw a new found hyper-focus on training to specialize to almost the micro level before being worthy of doing any job This is off-topic, but I'd like to know more about this. Could you give me some keywords to search off, or some links to read, to see what you're talking about?

desireco42 14y ago

Very good point. I would say that younger developers are taught to behave in hipster way as a means to get a good standing with their peers.

zem 14y ago

that is unnecessarily dismissive of an entire class of programmers (who were, let me add, around long before the web startup explosion). focusing on solving the user's problem is a valuable mindset, and is after all what keeps the industry alive, but focusing on solving the programmer's problem is equally valuable, and helps keep the industry productive. at the end of the day, yes, you can take a deep breath or several and crank out tens of thousands of lines of java which do the job perfectly well. but you can also notice that bits of it are far more easily done in jruby or clojure, and publish an article outlining your observations that lets the next person who has the same problem get it done with a lot less work and a lower error-rate, and surely that is worth something too.

robinr 14y ago

Agree so hard. Start a band(startup) in your garage(garage) with four of your talented musician(programmer) buddies, work long hard hours eating ramen for the love of rock music(hipster programming), get a facebook following(twitter/blog following), get an indie record deal(angel funding) then sign a major label deal (VC funding) and then have the record company(VC firm) dictate your musical direction(business decisions) and take most of your royalties(equity) away in exchange for risking the initial advance, which was only a leveraged loan against future earnings anyway. The VC and record label model are similar too. Invest in 100 promising bands(startups) and hopefully 5 of them are successes and 2 hit it out of the park(IPO).