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A Senior Software Engineer in Stockholm can expect to make less money than a Graduate Software Engineer in the United States, and will pay more taxes. It's sim

by 0xy 8mo ago

A Senior Software Engineer in Stockholm can expect to make less money than a Graduate Software Engineer in the United States, and will pay more taxes. It's simple, as a technologist, you live in Europe if retirement isn't important for you. Because you'll have almost nothing to show for it after 30 years in tech in Europe.

BeetleB 8mo ago
Except lots of vacation, travel, etc.
- keldonjohnson 8mo ago
  In big tech the benefits are the same, except you save more in 10 years in WA than people in London save in 30.
  - JohnnyMarcone 8mo ago
    What about everyone else in society? What happens if your skill set is no longer in demand and you become one of "everyone else"?
    - coder68 8mo ago
      Even working in "tech" but not FAANG this is so true, 10 days is still the norm at many white collar businesses for your first year of employment, sometimes 15 days if they're generous.
    - bitfilped 8mo ago
      Skill up.
  - BeetleB 8mo ago
    > In big tech the benefits are the same, Depends on which big tech. 15 days of vacation, BTW, doesn't even come close to comparing with much of Europe. And I didn't mention London. London is crap. Probably all of UK is. Most Europeans I know in certain countries travel a lot more than Americans at big tech.
    - lurking_swe 8mo ago
      What if i told you some big tech jobs let you earn $300k+ a year, while take 4 weeks+ time off, and working 40hrs a week? My first SWE job was at an older fortune 500 company where tech was not its main focus. You started with 14 days of vacation and slooooowly worked your way up to 4 weeks after like 20 years of service lol. My point is, in the U.S. your experience varies WILDLY based on your employer. Not saying the U.S. is perfect or does things the right way. Just pointing out that you’re off base with your “15 days of vacation for big tech” comment. That’s a false generalization for big tech. Accurate for white collar jobs in general though!
      - BeetleB 8mo ago
        > What if i told you some big tech jobs let you earn $300k+ a year, while take 4 weeks+ time off, and working 40hrs a week? Acknowledged in my original comment. The key word is "some". And my point is that people earning half that in Europe tend to go on more vacation travel than those earning the same amount in the US.
      - _Tev 8mo ago
        > while take 4 weeks+ time off What if I told you, that even mentioning this shows how little free time people get in the US? There is actually no SWE job (and I do mean actually 0 positions, I watch job postings way more than average person) in CZ that offers less than 5 weeks of paid vacation. When you look for companies that give actually nice benefits you can get 7-8 weeks, big chunk of it being sick days that you can claim whenever you want. And that all is on top of MUCH longer parental leave, often shorter work week (lol @ 40h a week being noteworthy), much more leeway given to people with health issues and generally shorter commutes. Not even mentioning difference in cost of living . . . The values are just different here.
        lurking_swe 7mo ago
        understood. my point is it’s still pretty good by international standards, and if it’s 3x the salary, it’s not a “no brainer” like you claim. It depends on what your goals are. That’s all i’m pointing out. I agree that the U.S. really lags in terms of taking care of its people. I am NOT recommending the U.S. as a great place to work for most people.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
coder68 8mo ago
The tradeoff with many EU countries would be that they enjoy their leisure time a lot more and sooner than Americans. Americans make more and save more statistically, but they spend it on cars, houses, and medical care, and generally have way less free time. So I think it's a wash.
g8oz 8mo ago
>>you live in Europe if retirement isn't important for you. Wouldn't the robust social safety net found in many European countries offer a dignified retirement for most people?
gzread 8mo ago
How does the cost of living difference work out? And quality of life?

by 0xy 8mo ago

BeetleB 8mo ago

Except lots of vacation, travel, etc.

keldonjohnson 8mo ago
In big tech the benefits are the same, except you save more in 10 years in WA than people in London save in 30.
- JohnnyMarcone 8mo ago
  What about everyone else in society? What happens if your skill set is no longer in demand and you become one of "everyone else"?
  - coder68 8mo ago
    Even working in "tech" but not FAANG this is so true, 10 days is still the norm at many white collar businesses for your first year of employment, sometimes 15 days if they're generous.
  - bitfilped 8mo ago
    Skill up.
- BeetleB 8mo ago
  > In big tech the benefits are the same, Depends on which big tech. 15 days of vacation, BTW, doesn't even come close to comparing with much of Europe. And I didn't mention London. London is crap. Probably all of UK is. Most Europeans I know in certain countries travel a lot more than Americans at big tech.
  - lurking_swe 8mo ago
    What if i told you some big tech jobs let you earn $300k+ a year, while take 4 weeks+ time off, and working 40hrs a week? My first SWE job was at an older fortune 500 company where tech was not its main focus. You started with 14 days of vacation and slooooowly worked your way up to 4 weeks after like 20 years of service lol. My point is, in the U.S. your experience varies WILDLY based on your employer. Not saying the U.S. is perfect or does things the right way. Just pointing out that you’re off base with your “15 days of vacation for big tech” comment. That’s a false generalization for big tech. Accurate for white collar jobs in general though!
    - BeetleB 8mo ago
      > What if i told you some big tech jobs let you earn $300k+ a year, while take 4 weeks+ time off, and working 40hrs a week? Acknowledged in my original comment. The key word is "some". And my point is that people earning half that in Europe tend to go on more vacation travel than those earning the same amount in the US.
    - _Tev 8mo ago
      > while take 4 weeks+ time off What if I told you, that even mentioning this shows how little free time people get in the US? There is actually no SWE job (and I do mean actually 0 positions, I watch job postings way more than average person) in CZ that offers less than 5 weeks of paid vacation. When you look for companies that give actually nice benefits you can get 7-8 weeks, big chunk of it being sick days that you can claim whenever you want. And that all is on top of MUCH longer parental leave, often shorter work week (lol @ 40h a week being noteworthy), much more leeway given to people with health issues and generally shorter commutes. Not even mentioning difference in cost of living . . . The values are just different here.
      - lurking_swe 7mo ago
        understood. my point is it’s still pretty good by international standards, and if it’s 3x the salary, it’s not a “no brainer” like you claim. It depends on what your goals are. That’s all i’m pointing out. I agree that the U.S. really lags in terms of taking care of its people. I am NOT recommending the U.S. as a great place to work for most people.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]

coder68 8mo ago

The tradeoff with many EU countries would be that they enjoy their leisure time a lot more and sooner than Americans. Americans make more and save more statistically, but they spend it on cars, houses, and medical care, and generally have way less free time. So I think it's a wash.

g8oz 8mo ago

>>you live in Europe if retirement isn't important for you. Wouldn't the robust social safety net found in many European countries offer a dignified retirement for most people?

gzread 8mo ago

How does the cost of living difference work out? And quality of life?