4 ms·

Yeah, living in Europe it simply makes me scratching my head how this law could affect me. It won't. No Californian law will tell me what I should do.

muyuu 7mo ago
these things are insidious once vendors are forced to put on hooks to some enforced age verification system, it will creep everywhere like cookie banners which you cannot escape even in Antarctica
- Aldipower 7mo ago
  Maybe, I get what you mean. But I think there is still a difference between what I install on _my own_ computer and opening some _others_ website.
  - muyuu 7mo ago
    i reckon the push will get to the point that us Europeans will end up actually installing it because all major OS's will enforce it
- drnick1 7mo ago
  When it comes to free software, I don't see what prevents anyone from patching out such undesired "features." This is why free software is more important than ever. Official distributors like System76 may have to comply, in CA at least, but I won't.
  - muyuu 7mo ago
    technically yes, but if those features have to come, for instance, in all kernel distributions, how many people would you expect to patch and compile their own kernels manually? let's say no distros would do it because of risk of exposure to massive fines, and you'd have to get patches from dodgy places because regulators keep stamping them out of the mainstream with threats of prosecution
    - drnick1 7mo ago
      > technically yes, but if those features have to come, for instance, in all kernel distributions It isn't the kernel's role to verify ages. The whole issue with FOSS is that it isn't even clear which component (of a Linux distribution for example) should be responsible for things such as age verification. No single part is an "operating system" by itself.
      - muyuu 7mo ago
        > It isn't the kernel's role to verify ages of course it's not, but this has been already floated if we stuck to what makes sense, nothing of this would have been even proposed - making sense is not something legislators are necessarily bound by and if we're talking of enforceability, plenty of people can be targeted and will be targeted if things follow this path, it's not like the main developers controlling the different systems in Linux - for instance - are anonymous take for instance System76, they're not even remotely in charge of the OS their computers run, but they know that 1) they may either leave their users with a nerfed connection if age signals are implemented at the browser protocol level, or at the application level and 2) they may be made responsible and liable for every computer they sell without those provisions, like it's going to start happening in Brazil in a few weeks plenty of people are possible attack vector for governments, and the very threat will cause an effect does anything of this make sense? no but it doesn't mean there is no present danger, just because your jurisdiction has not issued concrete threats yet or because you mean you can tell lawmakers you use OSS and therefore their laws don't apply to you the only thing they need to make "unverified" devices illegal is that the mainstream are all already corralled into "verified" systems, and you'd be effectively marginalised

muyuu 7mo ago

these things are insidious once vendors are forced to put on hooks to some enforced age verification system, it will creep everywhere like cookie banners which you cannot escape even in Antarctica

Aldipower 7mo ago
Maybe, I get what you mean. But I think there is still a difference between what I install on _my own_ computer and opening some _others_ website.
- muyuu 7mo ago
  i reckon the push will get to the point that us Europeans will end up actually installing it because all major OS's will enforce it
drnick1 7mo ago
When it comes to free software, I don't see what prevents anyone from patching out such undesired "features." This is why free software is more important than ever. Official distributors like System76 may have to comply, in CA at least, but I won't.
- muyuu 7mo ago
  technically yes, but if those features have to come, for instance, in all kernel distributions, how many people would you expect to patch and compile their own kernels manually? let's say no distros would do it because of risk of exposure to massive fines, and you'd have to get patches from dodgy places because regulators keep stamping them out of the mainstream with threats of prosecution
  - drnick1 7mo ago
    > technically yes, but if those features have to come, for instance, in all kernel distributions It isn't the kernel's role to verify ages. The whole issue with FOSS is that it isn't even clear which component (of a Linux distribution for example) should be responsible for things such as age verification. No single part is an "operating system" by itself.
    - muyuu 7mo ago
      > It isn't the kernel's role to verify ages of course it's not, but this has been already floated if we stuck to what makes sense, nothing of this would have been even proposed - making sense is not something legislators are necessarily bound by and if we're talking of enforceability, plenty of people can be targeted and will be targeted if things follow this path, it's not like the main developers controlling the different systems in Linux - for instance - are anonymous take for instance System76, they're not even remotely in charge of the OS their computers run, but they know that 1) they may either leave their users with a nerfed connection if age signals are implemented at the browser protocol level, or at the application level and 2) they may be made responsible and liable for every computer they sell without those provisions, like it's going to start happening in Brazil in a few weeks plenty of people are possible attack vector for governments, and the very threat will cause an effect does anything of this make sense? no but it doesn't mean there is no present danger, just because your jurisdiction has not issued concrete threats yet or because you mean you can tell lawmakers you use OSS and therefore their laws don't apply to you the only thing they need to make "unverified" devices illegal is that the mainstream are all already corralled into "verified" systems, and you'd be effectively marginalised