5 ms·

Heh that's already what parental controls do (granted, the website don't report the content, and it's based on blacklists), but they are trivial to bypass. Even

Heh that's already what parental controls do (granted, the website don't report the content, and it's based on blacklists), but they are trivial to bypass. Even the article mention it: > The child can install a virtual machine, create an account on the virtual machine and set the age to 18 or over It's precisely how I worked around the parental control my parents put on my computer when I was ~12. Get Virtualbox, get a Kubuntu ISO, and voilà! The funniest is, I did not want to access adult content, but the software had thepiratebay on its blacklist, which I did want. In the end, I proudly showed them (look ma!), and they promptly removed the control from the computer, as you can't fight a motivated kid.

AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
> but they are trivial to bypass. That's assuming the parental controls allow the kid to create a virtual machine. And then that the kid knows how to create a virtual machine, which is already at the level of difficulty of getting the high school senior who is already 18 to loan you their ID. None of this stuff is ever going to be Fort Knox. Locks are for keeping honest people honest.
- Ntrails 8mo ago
  If the kid knows how to ask an llm, they can do whatever technical hacks are required
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    Would that make the LLM (or the company who made it) liable under the DMCA for showing someone how to work around a digital lock that controls access to a copyrighted work.
- tuetuopay 8mo ago
  We could argue on the technical feasability all day, as non-kvm qemu does not need any special permission to run a VM (albeit dog slow). I honestly don't really agree on the difficulty, as if this becomes a commonplace way to bypass such laws, you can expect tiktok to be full of videos about how to do it. People will provide already-installed VMs in a turnkey solution. It's not unlike how generations of kids playing minecraft learnt how to port forward and how to insatll VPNs for non-alleged-privacy reasons: something that was considered out of a kid's reach became a commodity. > None of this stuff is ever going to be Fort Knox. Locks are for keeping honest people honest. On that we agree, and it makes me sad. The gap between computer literate and illiterate will only widen a time passes. Non motivated kids will learn less, and motivated ones will get a kickstart by going around the locks.
  - AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
    > We could argue on the technical feasability all day, as non-kvm qemu does not need any special permission to run a VM (albeit dog slow). That's assuming the permission is for "use of kernel-mode hardware virtualization" rather than "installation of virtualization apps". Notice that if the kid can run arbitrary code then any of this was already a moot point because then they can already access websites in other countries that don't enforce any of this stuff.
- stavros 8mo ago
  It might be Fort Knox just fine at some point, when computers will require a cryptographically signed government certificate that you're over 18, and you can't use the computer until you provide it.
  - AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
    Even in that case the large majority of the population would then have that certificate and the motivated minors would just beg, borrow or steal one.
  - voakbasda 8mo ago
    No one has ever faked a government ID?
    - stavros 8mo ago
      Nope, not a zero-knowledge proof with cryptographic signatures.
- b112 8mo ago
  And then that the kid knows how to create a virtual machine It's just a bunch of clicks, even under linux. Just install virtualbox. It literally walks you through a VM creation.
  - AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
    > It's just a bunch of clicks I promise there are people who can't figure out how to do it. And again, the point of the lock on the door where you keep the porn is not to be robustly impenetrable to entry by a motivated 16 year old with a sledgehammer, it's only to make it obvious that they're not intended to go in there.
    - bonoboTP 8mo ago
      Depends on how much people want the hidden content. People in Eastern Europe, regular people, noch tech wiz kids, know how to use torrent and know about seed ratios etc. At least it was so ca 5 years ago. People can learn when the thing matters to them. Regular people want to get things done, the tinkering is not a goal for them in itself and they gravitate to simple and convenient ways of achieving things, and don't care about abstract principles like open source or tech advantages or what they see as tinfoil hat stuff. But if they want to see their favorite TV series or movie, they will jump through hoops. Similarly for this case.
ycombinator_acc 8mo ago
There's an ocean of difference between your device changing behavior based on a flag set by individual sites and your device using a blacklist set by some list maintainer - the main difference being that the latter is utterly useless due to being an example of badness enumeration.
muyuu 8mo ago
a kid who can install Linux, or set up an ssh tunnel to a seedbox, is a kid who doesn't need to be told by the government what he or she should be watching that is the job of parents/guardians
- sidewndr46 8mo ago
  I'd actually argue that's exactly the kid who the government is there to tell them what they shouldn't be watching. The government is never really there to restrict the incompetent, they are pretty good at doing that themselves.
  - muyuu 8mo ago
    it's the kid they are up against to, but not the kid who "needs" it

AnthonyMouse 8mo ago

> but they are trivial to bypass. That's assuming the parental controls allow the kid to create a virtual machine. And then that the kid knows how to create a virtual machine, which is already at the level of difficulty of getting the high school senior who is already 18 to loan you their ID. None of this stuff is ever going to be Fort Knox. Locks are for keeping honest people honest.

Ntrails 8mo ago
If the kid knows how to ask an llm, they can do whatever technical hacks are required
- autoexec 8mo ago
  Would that make the LLM (or the company who made it) liable under the DMCA for showing someone how to work around a digital lock that controls access to a copyrighted work.
tuetuopay 8mo ago
We could argue on the technical feasability all day, as non-kvm qemu does not need any special permission to run a VM (albeit dog slow). I honestly don't really agree on the difficulty, as if this becomes a commonplace way to bypass such laws, you can expect tiktok to be full of videos about how to do it. People will provide already-installed VMs in a turnkey solution. It's not unlike how generations of kids playing minecraft learnt how to port forward and how to insatll VPNs for non-alleged-privacy reasons: something that was considered out of a kid's reach became a commodity. > None of this stuff is ever going to be Fort Knox. Locks are for keeping honest people honest. On that we agree, and it makes me sad. The gap between computer literate and illiterate will only widen a time passes. Non motivated kids will learn less, and motivated ones will get a kickstart by going around the locks.
- AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
  > We could argue on the technical feasability all day, as non-kvm qemu does not need any special permission to run a VM (albeit dog slow). That's assuming the permission is for "use of kernel-mode hardware virtualization" rather than "installation of virtualization apps". Notice that if the kid can run arbitrary code then any of this was already a moot point because then they can already access websites in other countries that don't enforce any of this stuff.
stavros 8mo ago
It might be Fort Knox just fine at some point, when computers will require a cryptographically signed government certificate that you're over 18, and you can't use the computer until you provide it.
- AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
  Even in that case the large majority of the population would then have that certificate and the motivated minors would just beg, borrow or steal one.
- voakbasda 8mo ago
  No one has ever faked a government ID?
  - stavros 8mo ago
    Nope, not a zero-knowledge proof with cryptographic signatures.
b112 8mo ago
And then that the kid knows how to create a virtual machine It's just a bunch of clicks, even under linux. Just install virtualbox. It literally walks you through a VM creation.
- AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
  > It's just a bunch of clicks I promise there are people who can't figure out how to do it. And again, the point of the lock on the door where you keep the porn is not to be robustly impenetrable to entry by a motivated 16 year old with a sledgehammer, it's only to make it obvious that they're not intended to go in there.
  - bonoboTP 8mo ago
    Depends on how much people want the hidden content. People in Eastern Europe, regular people, noch tech wiz kids, know how to use torrent and know about seed ratios etc. At least it was so ca 5 years ago. People can learn when the thing matters to them. Regular people want to get things done, the tinkering is not a goal for them in itself and they gravitate to simple and convenient ways of achieving things, and don't care about abstract principles like open source or tech advantages or what they see as tinfoil hat stuff. But if they want to see their favorite TV series or movie, they will jump through hoops. Similarly for this case.

ycombinator_acc 8mo ago

There's an ocean of difference between your device changing behavior based on a flag set by individual sites and your device using a blacklist set by some list maintainer - the main difference being that the latter is utterly useless due to being an example of badness enumeration.

muyuu 8mo ago

a kid who can install Linux, or set up an ssh tunnel to a seedbox, is a kid who doesn't need to be told by the government what he or she should be watching that is the job of parents/guardians

sidewndr46 8mo ago
I'd actually argue that's exactly the kid who the government is there to tell them what they shouldn't be watching. The government is never really there to restrict the incompetent, they are pretty good at doing that themselves.
- muyuu 8mo ago
  it's the kid they are up against to, but not the kid who "needs" it