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They also make it easier for nation states to cut off access to public and private services when they don't like what a citizen is doing. It's wasn't normalized

They also make it easier for nation states to cut off access to public and private services when they don't like what a citizen is doing. It's wasn't normalized by choice - it was forced upon people. I'm sure NGOs and governments love it but that certainly doesn't mean that citizens do, which governments are supposed to serve. The paranoia is very valid. [1] [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vietnam-bank-account-purge-boosts-095332550.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vietnam-bank-account-purge-bo...

alephnerd 8mo ago
My in-laws in rural Gia Lai love having a biometric ID as does my extended family in rural Northwest India. Before there was significant friction when setting up physical IDs and bank and government services simply couldn't scale down to the village level, which would make routine paperwork a multi-day affair. Being able to do almost all government-related and banking paperwork over the Internet has legimately made it easier for my extended family in both VN and India to become banked, access public welfare without dealing with corrupt local apparatchiks, and accessing capital to think about making MSMEs. As I mentioned above, this kind of performative activism is a luxury belief.
- deleted 8mo ago
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- tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
  It's already possible to do government-related and banking paperwork over the Internet without digital identities linked to your biometrics. We do it every day in the United States. You're also conveniently ignoring the fact that the system in Ethiopia is being used for far more than banking or government services - their website lists obtaining internet access, sim cards, transportation etc... These digital identities are being used to surveil the activity of citizens and lock anyone the government doesn't like out of commerce.
  - alephnerd 8mo ago
    In the US most households have already had records and identities associated with themselves for decades. In most of the developing world, most people didn't even have a drivers license 20 years ago. > their website lists obtaining internet access, sim cards, transportation etc... These digital identities are being used to surveil the activity of citizens and lock anyone the government doesn't like out of commerce. So what? Ethiopia is also a country with active insurgencies and security risks. The benefits of security and stability outweigh the alternative. Look at China - it's progress in building digital public infrastructure is what helped it expand dramatically in the 2010s [0]. This is the same thing India is doing [1] (who implemented this project in Ethiopia btw), as is Brazil [2], and other Global South members. Even the EU is looking at adopting similar tenets as well [3]. [0] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-025-04614-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-025-04614-4 [1] - https://ris.org.in/sites/default/files/Publication/DPI_Handbook.pdf https://ris.org.in/sites/default/files/Publication/DPI_Handb... [2] - https://cop30.br/en/news-about-cop30/brazil-calls-for-global-public-digital-infrastructure-to-speed-up-climate-action https://cop30.br/en/news-about-cop30/brazil-calls-for-global... [3] - https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/expressions/indias-digital-public-infrastructure-success-story-world https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/expressions/indias-digi...
    - tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
      Is expansion all that matters to you? What about human rights and personal sovereignty? Do you think China is a bastion of democracy and freedom? The benefits of security and stability do not outweigh the alternative when authoritarian governments decide to curb stomp the natural rights of people that don't want to comply with their agendas. You sound like an individual who would gladly take the mark of the beast if it was offered to you. Count me out (of this back and forth as well).
      - alephnerd 8mo ago
        > Is expansion all that matters to you I care about expanding public service delivery capacity. In developing countries, the only cheap and efficient manner to do so is via DPI. The only countries that escaped the middle income trap have either been subsidized by EU development grants, oil exports, or US largess. For countries where none of those are the option, you need to make do with what you have. > The benefits of security and stability do not outweigh the alternative when authoritarian governments decide to curb stomp the natural rights of people that don't want to comply with their agendas When the decision is between luxury beliefs or survival, and in a country like Ethiopia whose developmental indicators are comparable to Afghanistan, the latter will always win.

alephnerd 8mo ago

My in-laws in rural Gia Lai love having a biometric ID as does my extended family in rural Northwest India. Before there was significant friction when setting up physical IDs and bank and government services simply couldn't scale down to the village level, which would make routine paperwork a multi-day affair. Being able to do almost all government-related and banking paperwork over the Internet has legimately made it easier for my extended family in both VN and India to become banked, access public welfare without dealing with corrupt local apparatchiks, and accessing capital to think about making MSMEs. As I mentioned above, this kind of performative activism is a luxury belief.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
It's already possible to do government-related and banking paperwork over the Internet without digital identities linked to your biometrics. We do it every day in the United States. You're also conveniently ignoring the fact that the system in Ethiopia is being used for far more than banking or government services - their website lists obtaining internet access, sim cards, transportation etc... These digital identities are being used to surveil the activity of citizens and lock anyone the government doesn't like out of commerce.
- alephnerd 8mo ago
  In the US most households have already had records and identities associated with themselves for decades. In most of the developing world, most people didn't even have a drivers license 20 years ago. > their website lists obtaining internet access, sim cards, transportation etc... These digital identities are being used to surveil the activity of citizens and lock anyone the government doesn't like out of commerce. So what? Ethiopia is also a country with active insurgencies and security risks. The benefits of security and stability outweigh the alternative. Look at China - it's progress in building digital public infrastructure is what helped it expand dramatically in the 2010s [0]. This is the same thing India is doing [1] (who implemented this project in Ethiopia btw), as is Brazil [2], and other Global South members. Even the EU is looking at adopting similar tenets as well [3]. [0] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-025-04614-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-025-04614-4 [1] - https://ris.org.in/sites/default/files/Publication/DPI_Handbook.pdf https://ris.org.in/sites/default/files/Publication/DPI_Handb... [2] - https://cop30.br/en/news-about-cop30/brazil-calls-for-global-public-digital-infrastructure-to-speed-up-climate-action https://cop30.br/en/news-about-cop30/brazil-calls-for-global... [3] - https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/expressions/indias-digital-public-infrastructure-success-story-world https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/expressions/indias-digi...
  - tinfoilhatter 8mo ago
    Is expansion all that matters to you? What about human rights and personal sovereignty? Do you think China is a bastion of democracy and freedom? The benefits of security and stability do not outweigh the alternative when authoritarian governments decide to curb stomp the natural rights of people that don't want to comply with their agendas. You sound like an individual who would gladly take the mark of the beast if it was offered to you. Count me out (of this back and forth as well).
    - alephnerd 8mo ago
      > Is expansion all that matters to you I care about expanding public service delivery capacity. In developing countries, the only cheap and efficient manner to do so is via DPI. The only countries that escaped the middle income trap have either been subsidized by EU development grants, oil exports, or US largess. For countries where none of those are the option, you need to make do with what you have. > The benefits of security and stability do not outweigh the alternative when authoritarian governments decide to curb stomp the natural rights of people that don't want to comply with their agendas When the decision is between luxury beliefs or survival, and in a country like Ethiopia whose developmental indicators are comparable to Afghanistan, the latter will always win.