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This is the first step to true open hardware. I am concerned how fast IT evolves to DRM-locked devices. The PC will become obsolete by tablets so we will lose

This is the first step to true open hardware. I am concerned how fast IT evolves to DRM-locked devices. The PC will become obsolete by tablets so we will lose control over our computers. Currently DRM looks harmless but when you consider the long-term consequences it doesn't look good at all. First we fought TCPA and Trusted Computing, now we have the first global players (Apple, Microsoft) put DRM into their gadgets to get maximum control and minimum competition. And the customers buy, consume, and play, without considering the consequences. Our technology today is the foundation for the political systems of tomorrow, and when you consider the global demographic development you know what I mean. Within the next twenty years we will have a completely different global political and economical system, and I don't want to have them total control over us with their super-safe cascaded DRM chips which nobody will be able to break. Unfortunately we can't stop Apple, Microsoft & Co. from using DRM. That's why I appreciate pioneer projects like this selfmade FPGA very much as they help to jump over the big hurdle from open source to true open hardware. Someday when all commercial chips will be DRM-locked I hope we will be able to 3D-print our own processors and RAM chips. I am convinced that Open Hardware will become vital for the survival of our freedom of speech and liberty in general.

zokier 14y ago
This is the first step to true open hardware?! You are not a hardware guy, are you?
- bitcracker 14y ago
  I know that there are several open hardware projects (Opencores for instance). But I consider _true_ open hardware as hardware were we always will have _full_ control over _every_ tiny detail of the system. The TTL level is the right foundation for that. If we could go down to the NMOS level or so for 3D printing, that would be even better. We'll see what the future shows.
  - ballooney 14y ago
    You've been able to build your own hardware from 74xx series chips for decades now, infact about half a century! Infact, that was the only option you had back in the day. This is retro rather than new, like making a ham radio out of thermionic valves, say. Nothing new, but kinda cool and certainly educational if you're new to the field. I think that's why the GP took objection to your rather statesmanly proclamation that this was heralding some kind of revolution in open hardware. It isn't, it's just a rather neat project. However, in your followup comment I definitely agree with you in that as soon as I can fab my own silicon in my garage, the world will be my mollusc. But we're pretty close nowadays with a $20 FPGA from digikey.
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      Come now, 74xx series chips hardly suffice. Exorbitantly expensive, difficult to source, impractical packages, copyrighted closed-source design... ;)
    - zokier 14y ago
      diy silicon is definitely a cool concept but this project, while cool in itself, is not a step towards that goal. and that was (one of) my issue with GP post.
      - bitcracker 14y ago
        I understand what you mean, and you are basically correct. But nevertheless I see this project as a milestone as it helps to focus on selfmade FPGAs instead of soldering TTL chips to copy some hard wired retro systems. If we someday will be able to print our own chips then they will surely be FPGAs because debugging and reprinting hardwired chips would be likely too expensive.
rrmm 14y ago
Check out Jeri Ellsworth's homebrow NMOS transistor for some real fun. Just get your bare silicon wafer from E-bay and have at it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE
- tzs 14y ago
  In a similar DIY spirit, homemade vacuum tubes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzyXMEpq4qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzyXMEpq4qw Here's another person making one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAMRHcbE3g0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAMRHcbE3g0
mindslight 14y ago
I agree with your entire comment except for the first sentence. When working for a ideological goal, it is important to continually and earnestly evaluate what goals the imagined solution will actually fulfill, lest one end up misplacing faith in an implementation that can never achieve the desired ends. First, this FPGA is still not implemented by things that are the lowest level - how do you know that 7404 doesn't actually contain secret logic looking for specific patterns on the 6 "independent" inputs (based on your widely-propagated design) that alter it's behavior? Second, if one wanted to build an auditable CPU, they would not start by building auditable reconfigurable logic in order to develop a soft core CPU on top of it. This is a needless extra layer of interpretation, and the number one constraint you're trying to overcome is the constant factors that are left out of the Big-Oh notation. We don't buy Intel processors because we're lazy and have money to burn, but because they contain a billion transistors switching a billion times a second. If you build something with 10k transistors switching at 10M Hz, something that would take 1 second on the modern CPU will take roughly 3 months. So I think there's two properties to be achieved for actual Free Computing. The first is roughly getting something that can compute. These days, this can be done by buying a standard PC and installing your own software on it. This may not continue to be possible (so we would have to eg rely on integrating our own ARM chips, then FPGAs, then microcontrollers, etc), but trying to put a solution forward before it is necessary isn't going to get very far. There also is available computation that is unlikely to go away - Javascript in web browsers, available to all but sandboxed programming toy apps, etc. Which brings us to the second quality of Free Computing, which is auditability - guaranteeing that the code running is doing what it says, rather than a subtle corruption which renders the whole sensitive algorithm broken. To get performance, we would like it if such a CPU could be made in a necessarily non-trusted fab, rather than independently assembled from discrete transistors. This seems like a harder, but yet better defined problem - meaning it might actually be possible to solve through some combination of clever proofs and bootstrapping trust up from an extremely simple auditable CPU.
- ansible 14y ago
  First, this FPGA is still not implemented by things that are the lowest level - how do you know that 7404 doesn't actually contain secret logic looking for specific patterns on the 6 "independent" inputs (based on your widely-propagated design) that alter it's behavior? Don't let your paranoia get the better of you. With only 6 inputs, if there is any anomalous behavior, it will quickly be noticed. And this subverted 7404 would need to have all its gates used on the same bus to have a hope of seeing that you're illegally copying a movie, and that is a rare application. And I think someone would notice that these inverters are using 6 orders of magnitude more power than necessary. Even for more complicated parts like CPUs, such tampering would be readily evident. For a long time to come, it will be a lot easier to hide nefarious code in software in some corner of a general purpose system (PC, tablet, etc.) than to put it into the hardware layer. Even nefarious code needs network communication these days, otherwise there's not much point.
kragen 14y ago
I agree with your entire comment except for the first sentence.

zokier 14y ago

This is the first step to true open hardware?! You are not a hardware guy, are you?

bitcracker 14y ago
I know that there are several open hardware projects (Opencores for instance). But I consider _true_ open hardware as hardware were we always will have _full_ control over _every_ tiny detail of the system. The TTL level is the right foundation for that. If we could go down to the NMOS level or so for 3D printing, that would be even better. We'll see what the future shows.
- ballooney 14y ago
  You've been able to build your own hardware from 74xx series chips for decades now, infact about half a century! Infact, that was the only option you had back in the day. This is retro rather than new, like making a ham radio out of thermionic valves, say. Nothing new, but kinda cool and certainly educational if you're new to the field. I think that's why the GP took objection to your rather statesmanly proclamation that this was heralding some kind of revolution in open hardware. It isn't, it's just a rather neat project. However, in your followup comment I definitely agree with you in that as soon as I can fab my own silicon in my garage, the world will be my mollusc. But we're pretty close nowadays with a $20 FPGA from digikey.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    Come now, 74xx series chips hardly suffice. Exorbitantly expensive, difficult to source, impractical packages, copyrighted closed-source design... ;)
  - zokier 14y ago
    diy silicon is definitely a cool concept but this project, while cool in itself, is not a step towards that goal. and that was (one of) my issue with GP post.
    - bitcracker 14y ago
      I understand what you mean, and you are basically correct. But nevertheless I see this project as a milestone as it helps to focus on selfmade FPGAs instead of soldering TTL chips to copy some hard wired retro systems. If we someday will be able to print our own chips then they will surely be FPGAs because debugging and reprinting hardwired chips would be likely too expensive.

rrmm 14y ago

Check out Jeri Ellsworth's homebrow NMOS transistor for some real fun. Just get your bare silicon wafer from E-bay and have at it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_znRopGtbE

tzs 14y ago
In a similar DIY spirit, homemade vacuum tubes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzyXMEpq4qw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzyXMEpq4qw Here's another person making one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAMRHcbE3g0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAMRHcbE3g0

mindslight 14y ago

I agree with your entire comment except for the first sentence. When working for a ideological goal, it is important to continually and earnestly evaluate what goals the imagined solution will actually fulfill, lest one end up misplacing faith in an implementation that can never achieve the desired ends. First, this FPGA is still not implemented by things that are the lowest level - how do you know that 7404 doesn't actually contain secret logic looking for specific patterns on the 6 "independent" inputs (based on your widely-propagated design) that alter it's behavior? Second, if one wanted to build an auditable CPU, they would not start by building auditable reconfigurable logic in order to develop a soft core CPU on top of it. This is a needless extra layer of interpretation, and the number one constraint you're trying to overcome is the constant factors that are left out of the Big-Oh notation. We don't buy Intel processors because we're lazy and have money to burn, but because they contain a billion transistors switching a billion times a second. If you build something with 10k transistors switching at 10M Hz, something that would take 1 second on the modern CPU will take roughly 3 months. So I think there's two properties to be achieved for actual Free Computing. The first is roughly getting something that can compute. These days, this can be done by buying a standard PC and installing your own software on it. This may not continue to be possible (so we would have to eg rely on integrating our own ARM chips, then FPGAs, then microcontrollers, etc), but trying to put a solution forward before it is necessary isn't going to get very far. There also is available computation that is unlikely to go away - Javascript in web browsers, available to all but sandboxed programming toy apps, etc. Which brings us to the second quality of Free Computing, which is auditability - guaranteeing that the code running is doing what it says, rather than a subtle corruption which renders the whole sensitive algorithm broken. To get performance, we would like it if such a CPU could be made in a necessarily non-trusted fab, rather than independently assembled from discrete transistors. This seems like a harder, but yet better defined problem - meaning it might actually be possible to solve through some combination of clever proofs and bootstrapping trust up from an extremely simple auditable CPU.

ansible 14y ago
First, this FPGA is still not implemented by things that are the lowest level - how do you know that 7404 doesn't actually contain secret logic looking for specific patterns on the 6 "independent" inputs (based on your widely-propagated design) that alter it's behavior? Don't let your paranoia get the better of you. With only 6 inputs, if there is any anomalous behavior, it will quickly be noticed. And this subverted 7404 would need to have all its gates used on the same bus to have a hope of seeing that you're illegally copying a movie, and that is a rare application. And I think someone would notice that these inverters are using 6 orders of magnitude more power than necessary. Even for more complicated parts like CPUs, such tampering would be readily evident. For a long time to come, it will be a lot easier to hide nefarious code in software in some corner of a general purpose system (PC, tablet, etc.) than to put it into the hardware layer. Even nefarious code needs network communication these days, otherwise there's not much point.

kragen 14y ago

I agree with your entire comment except for the first sentence.