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People will never understand, Proton is a privacy based email server, it is not the dark web where you can do as you please without consequences. Proton only h
by h4kunamata 8mo ago
People will never understand, Proton is a privacy based email server, it is not the dark web where you can do as you please without consequences.
Proton only has access to your IP and device ID, not your data.
With IP and device ID, you can easily track an user like finding the ISP, etc.
Do you wanna do naughty things?? Don't use such services do to so.
And ironically,this 404 Media is the only place I found covering this information and they require you to login to read the whole thing.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm red flag big time!!!!
- observationist 8mo agoProton isn't opsec, it's just the best available commercial clearweb host that still has to follow all the laws and comply with warrants, but won't be arbitrarily selling your metadata or engaging in the adtech garbage. Kagi is to google as proton is to gmail. You get web mail, custom domains, decent security, decent spam detection, solid features, and no PII being sold. Nice, clean, simple - I like paying them money. I feel good about doing business with them, and I don't run into that often these days.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- rationalist 8mo agoSounds like Fastmail, except Fastmail is less sketchy and has better deliverability.
- wswin 8mo agoWhat's sketchy about proton?
- SoftTalker 8mo agoI don't know if sketchy is the right word but every* time I encounter a proton mail user on a mailing list, they are tinfoil-hat paranoid. Like they are a random nobody, but they are convinced that "the Russians" or "the Chinese" are constantly hacking at their laptop and they are constantly trying to harden everything so much one wonders why they even bother using computers at all. * OK "every" is an exaggeration but enough that the impression has been formed.
- jadbox 8mo agoHow is Fastmail vs Proton?
- nawtagain 8mo agoFastmail requires payment meaning it is very closely tied to your identity. Proton is one of the very very few who do not tie a new email account to your identity via phone number, payment info or alternative email (which requires phone, payment info etc..). Even proton only provides webmail free - pop3/imap/smtp require payment. But that's still better than 99.99% of other webmail - everyone verifies via some method that ties to your personal info.
- lucb1e 8mo agoWhat device identifier are you referring to, something like the MAC addresses of your network cards? How are they retrieving that via a browser?
- hypeatei 8mo agoProton doesn't really protect anything email related unless the recipient is also using protonmail. The article also points out they sought payment data, not "IP and device ID" information.
- lucb1e 8mo ago> unless the recipient is also using protonmail Or any similar service from another vendor? Or hosts their own email. If someone using Protonmail emails me, their data is also not getting sold for example, it's just stored on my laptop
- wolvoleo 8mo agoEven if it's another self hosted service, proton still needs the plain text in order to send it to them with transit encryption only. Proton does have interoperability with PGP/GPG but very few people use that because of its UX.
- niam 8mo agoThis seems misleading inasmuch as your correspondents aren't all on the same mail servers. Yes, correspondence between you and Build-A-Bear, and between you and your local terrorist cell, are unencrypted individually. But Build-A-Bear presumably doesn't know about your correspondence with the cell, and the latter presumably has some interest in not sharing organizational data access with the former. I suppose you do have to trust that Proton isn't served a directive to snoop on your correspondence in transit with other providers. But that's still a much better position than leaving all of your historical data unencrypted at rest.
- rideontime 8mo ago404 Media has an excellent track record and is very reputable, if you're saying the "red flag" applies to them.
- expedition32 8mo agoJournalists should work for free. Which means that they are going to be paid by governments and corporations to spout propaganda because everyone has a mortgage to pay off...
- TechSquidTV 8mo agothis
- RandomNickname 8mo agoMeh,they got their own agenda. If the person or politics / group,they don't support then they have no problem just straight up making stuff up. Like the hit piece of Elons Grok where it was "doxing" pornstars names,but in reality all it did was just search web online and got the info from the first website it could find. But they made it seem like it was some hidden info that only Grok and Elon would know...
- datsci_est_2015 8mo agoSounds like you don’t understand doxing and may be overly sympathetic to a reactionary billionaire’s propaganda machine. Doxing for the most part is simply aggregating publicly available information on an individual and broadcasting it to a wider audience. Rarely does it require more serious sleuthing or even “hacking”, although those are the more notorious instances because it involves someone who may have been trying to hide their identity for various reasons.
- tbrownaw 8mo ago> don’t understand doxing No, it's that people keep misusing that word for a broader and broader class of things. Pushing back on dilution of meaning isn't a lack of understanding.
- mhitza 8mo agoThat's 404 media's approach. That's why I only read their headlines. In theory you could open up your protonmail account over tor and with bitcoin (or does that not work anymore?). Its been a good while since I tried them out. Why I don't recommend them anymore is because when I didn't extend my subscription in time (expecting an account downgrade), my mail was locked and emails hold on to as random. Allowed to login only for payment. That was one red flag from me, the second was when they shared IP address logs of a French protestor. E̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶a̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶l̶o̶g̶s̶ ̶p̶o̶l̶i̶c̶y̶,̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶I̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶e̶b̶e̶r̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶l̶y̶.̶ ̶O̶r̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶.̶
- gruez 8mo ago>the second was when they shared IP address logs of a French protestor. Even though at the time they had a no logs policy, if I remeber correctly. Or if I don't. You probably aren't remembering correctly given that specifically have a "login logs" option that can be toggled on/off.
- mhitza 8mo agoThanks for the update of the current state. I think at the time there was confusion around their policies "ProtonMail logged IP address of French activist after order by Swiss authorities" https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...
- mistyvales 8mo agoYou can still pay with cash!
- tototrains 8mo agolast time i tried they asked for an email to link the account to. I don't think they provide anonymous accounts anymore, but you can probably create one with another anonymous email.
- encrypted_bird 8mo ago
- afavour 8mo agoI really don’t think 404 Media having a login gate is a red flag. They’re a business that needs to make money and the alternative to subscriptions is ads, which would be exponentially worse for user safety than what exists today.
- netfortius 8mo agoHere you are: https://archive.ph/Zvw3O https://archive.ph/Zvw3O
- robcohen 8mo ago> Proton only has access to your IP and device ID, not your data. I like Proton. I use Proton. However, the problem with proton is that if you access your email via a web browser, there's nothing stopping protonmail (to my knowledge) from reading your email from within their webapp via JS. This type of attack could be targeted at the behest of authorities. So, actually, Proton COULD read your email (IFF you use webmail).
- gruez 8mo ago>So, actually, Proton COULD read your email (IFF you use webmail). The authorities can also read your self-hosted email if they had a warrant to search your house. Even if you enable FDE they can do a cold boot attack.
- Tepix 8mo agoWhat if you use encryption?
- perching_aix 8mo agoFDE stands for "Full Disk Encryption" in this context.
- renewiltord 8mo ago[flagged]
- encrypted_bird 8mo agoJust out of curiosity, what is a cold boot attack?
- gruez 8mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack tl;dr they pull the decryption keys from your computer while it's still running, which of course it is because your mail server has to be up 24/7.
- Andrex 8mo ago> Do you wanna do naughty things?? Don't use such services do to so. Is that really what happened here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Cop_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Cop_City
- hunterpayne 8mo agoLook at the numbers for number of people who die from interactions with police (both armed and unarmed) and then compare that to the extra violent deaths that happen because of defund the police polices and then let us know what you find. Only then can you make the claim you are implying. Otherwise you are doing the conspiracy theory thing where you present random data and then imply the idea you are pushing.
- bairrd 8mo agoCan you give me examples of where police were actually defunded?
- hunterpayne 8mo agoI lived in Oakland. It happened there (and about a dozen other major cities). Gaslighting voters is how you lost to Trump.
- xp84 8mo ago[flagged]
- ok_dad 8mo agoWhy do police need big training centers to learn about the constitution and our rights, escalation of force, etc? I learned all that stuff in a single room when I was in the military. So yea, “not like that” indeed.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- wolvoleo 8mo agoYes it does have access to your data, at least any email coming from or going to another mail provider. Because those are not end to end encrypted. Only encrypted in transit (and even that is optional). So they need to handle the plaintext at the point of transmission. I really don't like this about proton, they're always going on about their encryption but most emails they've seen in plain text on their SMTP servers. Because that's just how SMTP works. And so has the provider of the other party. Once they've put them in your mailbox they can't decrypt them again but I always consider a single exposure a loss of confidentiality. The only emails this doesn't apply to are those from people using PGP (yeah all three of them) and those on proton themselves. In my view this Achilles heel makes most of their protections irrelevant. But they still market it as if it's the email equivalent of signal, which actually can't see what you say at any point of transit. And non technical people have no idea about the difference. Ps I'm not blaming proton for not having a technical solution for this because interoperability makes it an unsolvable problem. But I do blame them for their marketing around it.
- mandeepj 8mo ago>Proton is a privacy based email server, it is not the dark web where you can do as you please without consequences. If you are so hard-pressed to do something, then maybe setup your own smtp server