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Maybe I don't understand as I'm an outsider, but as per my recent comment on this topic [0], I fail to see the logic of how "other countries" pay the US when th

Maybe I don't understand as I'm an outsider, but as per my recent comment on this topic [0], I fail to see the logic of how "other countries" pay the US when the tariffs are paid by the importer and not the other country which is exporting. I do acknowledge that import taxes can in theory help local industries, especially if the other countries are subsidizing exported goods. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47238951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47238951

epolanski 7mo ago
Tariffs almost never make sense, unless it's an industry that's super important for your own survival. Capitalism is about efficiency, and eventually there are going countries where producing certain items will always be more efficient. East asian countries have spent decades innovating and investing in their manufacturing capabilities. Also, one thing that grinds my nerves are the narratives of trade balances that only focus on physical goods but conveniently ignore services. US exports trillions in software, ai, music, videogames, financial services, cloud, and that's conveniently ignored. Eventually tariffs come back biting those who issue them, because the moment your local industries don't need to compete anymore to survive, they have no incentives to innovate.
- fc417fc802 7mo ago
  It's not that it's conveniently ignored. It's that a services economy, while lucrative in the good times, leaves you lacking self sufficiency and resilience. We should never have let manufacturing leave to the extent that we did, all in the name of efficiency over all else. Of course it goes without saying that launching an absurdist comedy interpretation of a global trade war is not the way to fix the problem.
  - collinmcnulty 7mo ago
    I don’t have a source for this handy, but I believe that in terms of goods produced, manufacturing is actually still alive and well in the US. It’s just that this is done by a much smaller and more automated workforce.
edaemon 7mo ago
It's nonsense, that's why it's hard to understand.
sonotathrowaway 7mo ago
Next time you wonder why a Trump supporter has a bad argument, remind yourself there was a nonzero number of them who literally drank bleach and Lysol after he told them too.
- CamperBob2 7mo ago
  I like how you're being downvoted for pointing out an objective, documented fact. [1] Of course an important corollary is that Trump did not, in fact, tell anyone to drink bleach or Lysol. His supporters were stupid enough to do it on their own initiative, at Trump's mere suggestion that it was worth looking into. 1: https://www.poison.med.wayne.edu/updates-content/kstytapp2qfstf0pkacdxmz943u1hs https://www.poison.med.wayne.edu/updates-content/kstytapp2qf...
nkrisc 7mo ago
Tariffs are a cost a country incurs upon itself to protect industries that are critical, not for their profits, but for the capabilities they offer. It's paying more for something just to keep it domestically available for purposes of national security.
tzs 7mo ago
The importer pays directly. There are three ways the importer can deal with the burden of that. In most cases it will be a combination of all three of them. 1. Raise the price they sell the imported item for. 2. Eat it. 3. Lower the price they are willing to pay the exporter. For the Trump tariffs it has been overall it has been about 90-96% #1 and #2 and 4-10% #3. I haven't seen a breakdown of how #1 and #2 is split.
pwg 7mo ago
> I fail to see the logic of how "other countries" pay the US when the tariffs are paid by the importer and not the other country which is exporting. The "logic" is/was that this was a lie directed at his "low information supporters" who tend to simply "believe" whatever he tells them without question. Those same supporters would have been very much against having a "tax increase" levied upon them, but so long as he lied to them and told them "the other country pays the tariffs" then they were fooled into not understanding the tariffs were just a tax increase and so were "in support" of the tariffs. That was the sole logic -- although there have been times when I've seen news blurbs that have made me wonder whether Trump himself actually believes his own lie about "other countries pay us" in regards to tariffs.

epolanski 7mo ago

Tariffs almost never make sense, unless it's an industry that's super important for your own survival. Capitalism is about efficiency, and eventually there are going countries where producing certain items will always be more efficient. East asian countries have spent decades innovating and investing in their manufacturing capabilities. Also, one thing that grinds my nerves are the narratives of trade balances that only focus on physical goods but conveniently ignore services. US exports trillions in software, ai, music, videogames, financial services, cloud, and that's conveniently ignored. Eventually tariffs come back biting those who issue them, because the moment your local industries don't need to compete anymore to survive, they have no incentives to innovate.

fc417fc802 7mo ago
It's not that it's conveniently ignored. It's that a services economy, while lucrative in the good times, leaves you lacking self sufficiency and resilience. We should never have let manufacturing leave to the extent that we did, all in the name of efficiency over all else. Of course it goes without saying that launching an absurdist comedy interpretation of a global trade war is not the way to fix the problem.
- collinmcnulty 7mo ago
  I don’t have a source for this handy, but I believe that in terms of goods produced, manufacturing is actually still alive and well in the US. It’s just that this is done by a much smaller and more automated workforce.

edaemon 7mo ago

It's nonsense, that's why it's hard to understand.

sonotathrowaway 7mo ago

Next time you wonder why a Trump supporter has a bad argument, remind yourself there was a nonzero number of them who literally drank bleach and Lysol after he told them too.

CamperBob2 7mo ago
I like how you're being downvoted for pointing out an objective, documented fact. [1] Of course an important corollary is that Trump did not, in fact, tell anyone to drink bleach or Lysol. His supporters were stupid enough to do it on their own initiative, at Trump's mere suggestion that it was worth looking into. 1: https://www.poison.med.wayne.edu/updates-content/kstytapp2qfstf0pkacdxmz943u1hs https://www.poison.med.wayne.edu/updates-content/kstytapp2qf...

nkrisc 7mo ago

Tariffs are a cost a country incurs upon itself to protect industries that are critical, not for their profits, but for the capabilities they offer. It's paying more for something just to keep it domestically available for purposes of national security.

tzs 7mo ago

The importer pays directly. There are three ways the importer can deal with the burden of that. In most cases it will be a combination of all three of them. 1. Raise the price they sell the imported item for. 2. Eat it. 3. Lower the price they are willing to pay the exporter. For the Trump tariffs it has been overall it has been about 90-96% #1 and #2 and 4-10% #3. I haven't seen a breakdown of how #1 and #2 is split.

pwg 7mo ago

> I fail to see the logic of how "other countries" pay the US when the tariffs are paid by the importer and not the other country which is exporting. The "logic" is/was that this was a lie directed at his "low information supporters" who tend to simply "believe" whatever he tells them without question. Those same supporters would have been very much against having a "tax increase" levied upon them, but so long as he lied to them and told them "the other country pays the tariffs" then they were fooled into not understanding the tariffs were just a tax increase and so were "in support" of the tariffs. That was the sole logic -- although there have been times when I've seen news blurbs that have made me wonder whether Trump himself actually believes his own lie about "other countries pay us" in regards to tariffs.