4 ms·

> reëlection > reënacted whats with the ree-s in the article...

by jareklupinski 7mo ago

enmyj 7mo ago
that's the New Yorker signature style
- jareklupinski 7mo ago
  i thought jaywalking was the new yorker signature style :P
nerevarthelame 7mo ago
It's a diacritic marker that indicates how the word is supposed to be pronounced, with a syllable break on the marked letters - as though readers might get confused and think the word is pronounced "reel-ection" as opposed to "re-election." It's a pretty archaic practice, but The New Yorker persists. They have a lot of unusual stylistic preferences, like preferring the spelling "vender" over "vendor," which also occurs in this article. A more common example of the diaeresis would be the name "Zoë" - the "ë" indicates the pronunciation is "zoe-y" (2 syllables) not "zoe" (1 syllable). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)#English
- jareklupinski 7mo ago
  til, thank you! i guess it's important for them we all coöperate on pröper spek :P thought i was seeing this because some ebooks also have missing/poorly substituted ligatures for me
- irdc 7mo ago
  As a Dutch person, what’s interesting to me is how this exact rule applies to Dutch. Maybe that’s why I didn’t notice it while reading the article…
retrac 7mo ago
Some style guides recommend the diaeresis over doubled vowels when they are pronounced separately. The idea is I believe from French: maïs, Noël, etc. I was taught to do it that way in public school here in Canada in the 90s; it is the textbook proper way to spell words like coördination. I was also taught that no one actually spells it that way and that co-ordination and coordination are both fine and far more common.
- derriz 7mo ago
  > The idea is I believe from French: maïs, Noël, etc. Apropos of nothing, except that it will allow me to vent a bit, it also changes the rule for the pronunciation of the last consonant of French words. Normally the lack of a trailing "e" would mean the last consonant is not-sounded but the diaeresis changes it: maïs/"my-isz", Noël/"noh-ell", etc. And yes Moët (the champagne) is pronounced "moh-ett" in France and by French speakers. It's incredibly annoying having someone subtly but in a slightly superior manner "correct" your pronunciation by repeating the mispronunciation right after you've pronounced it correctly - "sure, I'll order some some MOHAY". Outside I'm smiling and nodding pretending not to notice, inside I'm screaming "IT'S MOH-fcking-ETT MTHERF*KER - MOH-ETT."
  - sebastiennight 7mo ago
    > it also changes the rule for the pronunciation of the last consonant of French words. This was a very well explained distinction, with the exception of you using "Noël" as one of the examples, since "Noel" would still have a sounded "L". It would be weird to a French speaker but would most likely end up being pronounced somewhat like the English "null". > And yes Moët (the champagne) is pronounced "moh-ett" in France and by French speakers. My favorite Moët mispronunciation is one that it took me several months to understand: Russians pronounce it as if it was spelled in Cyrillic, so they say "mah- yacht". There is a famous MORGENSHTERN song which I only understood was about champagne when I saw the music video for the first time.
    - thaumasiotes 7mo ago
      > This was a very well explained distinction, with the exception of you using "Noël" as one of the examples Do you have reason to believe it's true, or are you commenting to say that it would have been a well-explained distinction if it were true? I tried to verify it, and found nothing but evidence that implicitly or explicitly contradicted it. (The best I could find in favor were the English wikipedia page on the house of Perrier-Jouët, which lists a pronunciation with /t/ -- the French page lists no pronunciation at all -- and the 19th-century book Comment on prononce le français, which confirms that maïs is pronounced with a final /s/, but lists it without comment alongside several other words that feature the same irregular pronunciation of "-s", none of which include a diaeresis. I'm compelled to infer that the realization of /s/ in maïs has nothing to do with the diaeresis. https://archive.org/details/commentonprononc00martuoft/page/302/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/commentonprononc00martuoft/page/... , page 302)

> reëlection > reënacted whats with the ree-s in the article...

enmyj 7mo ago

that's the New Yorker signature style

jareklupinski 7mo ago
i thought jaywalking was the new yorker signature style :P

nerevarthelame 7mo ago

It's a diacritic marker that indicates how the word is supposed to be pronounced, with a syllable break on the marked letters - as though readers might get confused and think the word is pronounced "reel-ection" as opposed to "re-election." It's a pretty archaic practice, but The New Yorker persists. They have a lot of unusual stylistic preferences, like preferring the spelling "vender" over "vendor," which also occurs in this article. A more common example of the diaeresis would be the name "Zoë" - the "ë" indicates the pronunciation is "zoe-y" (2 syllables) not "zoe" (1 syllable). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)#English

jareklupinski 7mo ago
til, thank you! i guess it's important for them we all coöperate on pröper spek :P thought i was seeing this because some ebooks also have missing/poorly substituted ligatures for me
irdc 7mo ago
As a Dutch person, what’s interesting to me is how this exact rule applies to Dutch. Maybe that’s why I didn’t notice it while reading the article…

retrac 7mo ago

Some style guides recommend the diaeresis over doubled vowels when they are pronounced separately. The idea is I believe from French: maïs, Noël, etc. I was taught to do it that way in public school here in Canada in the 90s; it is the textbook proper way to spell words like coördination. I was also taught that no one actually spells it that way and that co-ordination and coordination are both fine and far more common.

derriz 7mo ago
> The idea is I believe from French: maïs, Noël, etc. Apropos of nothing, except that it will allow me to vent a bit, it also changes the rule for the pronunciation of the last consonant of French words. Normally the lack of a trailing "e" would mean the last consonant is not-sounded but the diaeresis changes it: maïs/"my-isz", Noël/"noh-ell", etc. And yes Moët (the champagne) is pronounced "moh-ett" in France and by French speakers. It's incredibly annoying having someone subtly but in a slightly superior manner "correct" your pronunciation by repeating the mispronunciation right after you've pronounced it correctly - "sure, I'll order some some MOHAY". Outside I'm smiling and nodding pretending not to notice, inside I'm screaming "IT'S MOH-fcking-ETT MTHERF*KER - MOH-ETT."
- sebastiennight 7mo ago
  > it also changes the rule for the pronunciation of the last consonant of French words. This was a very well explained distinction, with the exception of you using "Noël" as one of the examples, since "Noel" would still have a sounded "L". It would be weird to a French speaker but would most likely end up being pronounced somewhat like the English "null". > And yes Moët (the champagne) is pronounced "moh-ett" in France and by French speakers. My favorite Moët mispronunciation is one that it took me several months to understand: Russians pronounce it as if it was spelled in Cyrillic, so they say "mah- yacht". There is a famous MORGENSHTERN song which I only understood was about champagne when I saw the music video for the first time.
  - thaumasiotes 7mo ago
    > This was a very well explained distinction, with the exception of you using "Noël" as one of the examples Do you have reason to believe it's true, or are you commenting to say that it would have been a well-explained distinction if it were true? I tried to verify it, and found nothing but evidence that implicitly or explicitly contradicted it. (The best I could find in favor were the English wikipedia page on the house of Perrier-Jouët, which lists a pronunciation with /t/ -- the French page lists no pronunciation at all -- and the 19th-century book Comment on prononce le français, which confirms that maïs is pronounced with a final /s/, but lists it without comment alongside several other words that feature the same irregular pronunciation of "-s", none of which include a diaeresis. I'm compelled to infer that the realization of /s/ in maïs has nothing to do with the diaeresis. https://archive.org/details/commentonprononc00martuoft/page/302/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/commentonprononc00martuoft/page/... , page 302)