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I’m a hard core rogue-like player (easily over a thousand hours at least in all the games I’ve played) but even so I can admit that hey have nothing compared to

I’m a hard core rogue-like player (easily over a thousand hours at least in all the games I’ve played) but even so I can admit that hey have nothing compared to a well crafted world like you’d find in From Software titles or Expedition 33, or classic Zelda games for that matter. Making a great world is an incredibly hard task though and few studios have the capabilities to do so.

b0rsuk 7mo ago
[dead]
bee_rider 7mo ago
It’s a different type of thing, really. I like rogue-likes because they are a… pretty basic… story about my character, rather than a perfectly crafted story about somebody else’s. Even when I play a game like Expedition 33 or Elden Ring, my brain (for whatever reason) makes a solid split between the cutscene versions of the characters and the gameplay version. I mean, in some games the gameplay characters is a wandering murderer, while the cutscene characters have all sorts of moral compunctions about killing the big-bad. They are clearly different dudes.
angry_octet 7mo ago
Rogue-like games use the most simple randomisation to generate the next room, and I burnt hundreds of hours in Mines of Moria before I forced myself to quit. Now with an LLM I could have AD&D-like campaigns, photorealistic renders of my character and the NPCs. I could give it the text of an AD&D campaign as a DM and have it generate walking and talking NOCs. The art of those great fantasy artists is definitely being stolen in generated images, and application of VLMs should require payment into some sort of art funding pool. But modern artists could well profit by being the intermediary between user and VLM, crafting prompts, both visual and textual, to give a consistent look and feel to a game. The essay author is smoking crack.
- tadfisher 7mo ago
  Artists want to create. They do not want to tweak prompts and click "Generate" repeatedly until the output matches their vision. I would find this maddening. But this wouldn't make sense anyway. Game companies won't foot the bill for real-time renders of your character, let alone a world of generated NPCs. If/when costs are low enough, and players accept a recurring subscription to play games, then this could happen, sure. No way in hell will artists be available in real-time to keep the generated imagery consistent.
  - angry_octet 7mo ago
    Why would game companies be paying for rendering on my computer? My computer can fantasise player specific details, in a palette created by game artists, and render them itself. Game artists could indeed be working in real time in MMORPGs to tweak the world, impresarios of the shared experience. Paying for live human shaped performance art is a great way to keep human creativity central to the experience.

b0rsuk 7mo ago

[dead]

bee_rider 7mo ago

It’s a different type of thing, really. I like rogue-likes because they are a… pretty basic… story about my character, rather than a perfectly crafted story about somebody else’s. Even when I play a game like Expedition 33 or Elden Ring, my brain (for whatever reason) makes a solid split between the cutscene versions of the characters and the gameplay version. I mean, in some games the gameplay characters is a wandering murderer, while the cutscene characters have all sorts of moral compunctions about killing the big-bad. They are clearly different dudes.

angry_octet 7mo ago

Rogue-like games use the most simple randomisation to generate the next room, and I burnt hundreds of hours in Mines of Moria before I forced myself to quit. Now with an LLM I could have AD&D-like campaigns, photorealistic renders of my character and the NPCs. I could give it the text of an AD&D campaign as a DM and have it generate walking and talking NOCs. The art of those great fantasy artists is definitely being stolen in generated images, and application of VLMs should require payment into some sort of art funding pool. But modern artists could well profit by being the intermediary between user and VLM, crafting prompts, both visual and textual, to give a consistent look and feel to a game. The essay author is smoking crack.

tadfisher 7mo ago
Artists want to create. They do not want to tweak prompts and click "Generate" repeatedly until the output matches their vision. I would find this maddening. But this wouldn't make sense anyway. Game companies won't foot the bill for real-time renders of your character, let alone a world of generated NPCs. If/when costs are low enough, and players accept a recurring subscription to play games, then this could happen, sure. No way in hell will artists be available in real-time to keep the generated imagery consistent.
- angry_octet 7mo ago
  Why would game companies be paying for rendering on my computer? My computer can fantasise player specific details, in a palette created by game artists, and render them itself. Game artists could indeed be working in real time in MMORPGs to tweak the world, impresarios of the shared experience. Paying for live human shaped performance art is a great way to keep human creativity central to the experience.