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How do those companies make money? Qwen, GLM, Kimi, etc all released for free. I have no experience in the field, but from reading HN alone my impression was tr

How do those companies make money? Qwen, GLM, Kimi, etc all released for free. I have no experience in the field, but from reading HN alone my impression was training is exceptionally costly and inference can be barely made profitable. How/why do they fund ongoing development of those models? I'd understand if they release some of their less capable models for street cred, but they release all their work for free.

indrora 8mo ago
Ostensibly, a mix of VC funding and that they host an endpoint that lets them run the big (200+GB) models on their infrastructure rather than having to build machines with hundreds of gigs of llm-dedicated memory.
- wongarsu 8mo ago
  But on inference they have to compete with other inference provider that just has a homepage, a bunch of GPUs running vllm and none of the training cost. Their only real advantage are the performance optimizations that they might have implemented in their inference clusters and not made public
  - MarsIronPI 8mo ago
    Qwen, at least, IIRC has some proprietary models, specifically the Max series. IIRC these have larger context windows.
rwmj 8mo ago
The small spend may be worth it to destroy US proprietary AI companies.
theshrike79 8mo ago
Chinese companies don't always operate on purely capitalistic principles, there is sometimes government direction in the background. For China, the country, it's a good thing if American AI companies have to scramble to compete with Chinese open models. It might not be massively profitable for the companies producing said models, but that's only a part of the equation
- miki123211 8mo ago
  China seems to combine the best points of capitalism (many companies taking many shots on goal, instead of the eastern bloc way of one centrally-mandated solution that either works or not) with the best points of communism (state-sponsored industries that don't have to generate a profit, for the glory and benefit of the state).
  - theshrike79 8mo ago
    There is a certain advantage to being able to go "I want a factory city here, that will manufacture ... Toasters"
gmerc 8mo ago
How do US tech companies make money? They don't until the competition has been starved.
raven12345 8mo ago
As someone active in both English and Chinese media, I always feel like who relying on only one is brainwashing, just like Wumao. There's no difference here; it's always about the government control，destroying US company... In reality, free services have always been a competitive strategy for businesses in China, from ride-hailing to bike-sharing, all about grabbing market share and competing for potential users. Daily active users are what Chinese companies care about most.

indrora 8mo ago

Ostensibly, a mix of VC funding and that they host an endpoint that lets them run the big (200+GB) models on their infrastructure rather than having to build machines with hundreds of gigs of llm-dedicated memory.

wongarsu 8mo ago
But on inference they have to compete with other inference provider that just has a homepage, a bunch of GPUs running vllm and none of the training cost. Their only real advantage are the performance optimizations that they might have implemented in their inference clusters and not made public
- MarsIronPI 8mo ago
  Qwen, at least, IIRC has some proprietary models, specifically the Max series. IIRC these have larger context windows.

rwmj 8mo ago

The small spend may be worth it to destroy US proprietary AI companies.

theshrike79 8mo ago

Chinese companies don't always operate on purely capitalistic principles, there is sometimes government direction in the background. For China, the country, it's a good thing if American AI companies have to scramble to compete with Chinese open models. It might not be massively profitable for the companies producing said models, but that's only a part of the equation

miki123211 8mo ago
China seems to combine the best points of capitalism (many companies taking many shots on goal, instead of the eastern bloc way of one centrally-mandated solution that either works or not) with the best points of communism (state-sponsored industries that don't have to generate a profit, for the glory and benefit of the state).
- theshrike79 8mo ago
  There is a certain advantage to being able to go "I want a factory city here, that will manufacture ... Toasters"

gmerc 8mo ago

How do US tech companies make money? They don't until the competition has been starved.

raven12345 8mo ago

As someone active in both English and Chinese media, I always feel like who relying on only one is brainwashing, just like Wumao. There's no difference here; it's always about the government control，destroying US company... In reality, free services have always been a competitive strategy for businesses in China, from ride-hailing to bike-sharing, all about grabbing market share and competing for potential users. Daily active users are what Chinese companies care about most.