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Gemini didn't "know" he wasn't a child when it told him to kill himself or to "stage a mass casualty attack while armed with knives and tactical gear." There a

Gemini didn't "know" he wasn't a child when it told him to kill himself or to "stage a mass casualty attack while armed with knives and tactical gear." There are things you shouldn't encourage people of any age to do. If a human telling him these things would be found liable then google should be. If a human would get time behind bars for it, at least one person at google needs to spend time behind bars for this.

not_ai 7mo ago
Preferably the C-Suite.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  exactly. That's why they get the big bucks. They're ultimately responsible
  - ryandrake 7mo ago
    The C-suite is only responsible when the company does good or stonks go up. When they do something bad, it's either: external market forces, the laws of physics, an uncertain macroeconomic environment, unfair competition, or lone wolf individual employees way down the totem pole.
- nickff 7mo ago
  I understand the impulse in this direction, but I’m not sure it would serve as much of a disincentive, as there would likely just be a highly-paid scapegoat. Why not something more lasting and less difficult to ignore, like compulsory disclosure of the model’s source code (in addition to compensation for the victim(s)). Compulsory disclosure of the source would be a massive disadvantage.
  - autoexec 7mo ago
    The source code isn't where the money is, what you want is the training data. Force them to serve and make freely available all the data they stole to sell back to us. That way everyone and anyone can use it when training their own models. That might just be punitive enough.
  - red-iron-pine 7mo ago
    > as there would likely just be a highly-paid scapegoat the point of executives is someone has to take responsibility. that's why they get paid. the buck has to stop somewhere.
tshaddox 7mo ago
> If a human telling him these things would be found liable then google should be. Sounds like a big if, actually. Can a human be found liable for this? I’d imagine they might be liable for damages in a civil suit, but I’m not even sure about that.
- rootusrootus 7mo ago
  Yes, people have gone to prison for it.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-guilty-encouraging-boyfriend-s-suicide-text-messages-n773306 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-g...
- XorNot 7mo ago
  It's been found so in US court previously: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/conviction-upheld-for-woman-who-urged-boyfriend-to-suicide/10793278 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/conviction-upheld-for...
- krger 7mo ago
  >Can a human be found liable for this? A father in Georgia was just convicted of second degree murder, child cruelty, and other charges because he failed to prevent his kid from shooting up his school.
  - autoexec 7mo ago
    More accurately it was because the father had multiple warnings that his child was mentally unstable but ignored them and handed his 14 year old a semiautomatic rifle even as the boy's mother (who did not live with them) pleaded to the father to lock all the guns and ammo up to prevent the kid from shooting people. If he had only "failed to prevent his kid from shooting up a school" he wouldn't have even been charged with anything.
    - 7mo ago
ncouture 7mo ago
It sounds more poetic than an invitation or an insult that invites someone directly or not to kill themselves, in its own, in my opinion. This isn't Gemini's words, it's many people's words in different contexts. It's a tragedy. Finding one to blame will be of no help at all.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  None of what Gemini says is "Gemini's words". It's always just training data and prompt input remixed and regurgitated out.
- strongpigeon 7mo ago
  > It's a tragedy. Finding one to blame will be of no help at all. Agreed with the first part, but holding the designers of those products responsible for the death they've incited will help making sure they put more safeguards around this (and I'm not talking about additional warnings)

not_ai 7mo ago

Preferably the C-Suite.

autoexec 7mo ago
exactly. That's why they get the big bucks. They're ultimately responsible
- ryandrake 7mo ago
  The C-suite is only responsible when the company does good or stonks go up. When they do something bad, it's either: external market forces, the laws of physics, an uncertain macroeconomic environment, unfair competition, or lone wolf individual employees way down the totem pole.
nickff 7mo ago
I understand the impulse in this direction, but I’m not sure it would serve as much of a disincentive, as there would likely just be a highly-paid scapegoat. Why not something more lasting and less difficult to ignore, like compulsory disclosure of the model’s source code (in addition to compensation for the victim(s)). Compulsory disclosure of the source would be a massive disadvantage.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  The source code isn't where the money is, what you want is the training data. Force them to serve and make freely available all the data they stole to sell back to us. That way everyone and anyone can use it when training their own models. That might just be punitive enough.
- red-iron-pine 7mo ago
  > as there would likely just be a highly-paid scapegoat the point of executives is someone has to take responsibility. that's why they get paid. the buck has to stop somewhere.

tshaddox 7mo ago

> If a human telling him these things would be found liable then google should be. Sounds like a big if, actually. Can a human be found liable for this? I’d imagine they might be liable for damages in a civil suit, but I’m not even sure about that.

rootusrootus 7mo ago
Yes, people have gone to prison for it.
autoexec 7mo ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-guilty-encouraging-boyfriend-s-suicide-text-messages-n773306 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-g...
XorNot 7mo ago
It's been found so in US court previously: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/conviction-upheld-for-woman-who-urged-boyfriend-to-suicide/10793278 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/conviction-upheld-for...
krger 7mo ago
>Can a human be found liable for this? A father in Georgia was just convicted of second degree murder, child cruelty, and other charges because he failed to prevent his kid from shooting up his school.
- autoexec 7mo ago
  More accurately it was because the father had multiple warnings that his child was mentally unstable but ignored them and handed his 14 year old a semiautomatic rifle even as the boy's mother (who did not live with them) pleaded to the father to lock all the guns and ammo up to prevent the kid from shooting people. If he had only "failed to prevent his kid from shooting up a school" he wouldn't have even been charged with anything.
  - 7mo ago

ncouture 7mo ago

It sounds more poetic than an invitation or an insult that invites someone directly or not to kill themselves, in its own, in my opinion. This isn't Gemini's words, it's many people's words in different contexts. It's a tragedy. Finding one to blame will be of no help at all.

autoexec 7mo ago
None of what Gemini says is "Gemini's words". It's always just training data and prompt input remixed and regurgitated out.
strongpigeon 7mo ago
> It's a tragedy. Finding one to blame will be of no help at all. Agreed with the first part, but holding the designers of those products responsible for the death they've incited will help making sure they put more safeguards around this (and I'm not talking about additional warnings)