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>> This is a quite scary map. It can be. FLOCK data was used to put Bryan Kohberger at the scene along with other people's security camera's. Cops regularly us

>> This is a quite scary map. It can be. FLOCK data was used to put Bryan Kohberger at the scene along with other people's security camera's. Cops regularly use FLOCK camera's to get hits for criminals that have warrants for violent crime. I can see why people are ok with them when they're used to get criminals off the streets. However, I've seen multiple times where cops initiate a felony stop (where people are pulled out at gunpoint and detained) against a car they got a hit on - only to find out the person they really wanted wasn't driving or even in the car at all. What's interesting is businesses and houses have so many cameras nowadays that the first thing cops do when they get to the scene of a violent crime is canvas the area for camera's. So yeah, you can avoid FLOCK, but there are most likely hundreds of other camera's that will capture you driving through any given area.

ghouse 7mo ago
But the cameras that the law enforcement officers canvas in the area aren't centrally aggregated and tagged with meta data such that they can be queried at scale.
xXSLAYERXx 7mo ago
> However, I've seen multiple times where cops initiate a felony stop At what point do we accept that all systems are flawed? There could be many variables as to why the perp wasn't in the car. Maybe the perp stole the car. Maybe the perp borrowed the car. Maybe these systems do not work well in fog etc etc. I don't know how we're supposed to advance technology that makes us safer without getting into these muky situations from time to time.
- mainmailman 7mo ago
  Why do anything at all?
  - xXSLAYERXx 7mo ago
    Why even deploy such systems? I would support less for sure.
- mulmen 7mo ago
  Technology is a means to an end, not the end itself. If you can’t make it safe then don’t deploy it.
  - xXSLAYERXx 7mo ago
    There must be some level of acceptable failure.
    - mulmen 7mo ago
      Flock, like Palantir, is the Torment Nexus from the famous novel Don’t Create The Torment Nexus. Considering the potential and demonstrated abuse there must be more robust guardrails than currently exist. The required level of safety is more like “nuclear launch codes” or “commercial airliner”, not “local used car lot landing page”. This juice ain’t worth the squeeze.
Firerouge 7mo ago
Do you have a source to your Bryan claim? If you look at the map, there are zero flock cameras reported in that region. None in Moscow Idaho where the murder happened, none in Pullman where he lived, and none showed between the locations.
- zythyx 7mo ago
  There's a disclaimer when you first open the page that the map is incomplete and that users need to submit the data. It's possible that data hasn't been submitted/parsed yet
  - Firerouge 7mo ago
    It's possible, but I can't find a corroborating news report, and it's the first I've heard this claim made about that case.
- FireBeyond 7mo ago
  You can't rely on Flock's "transparency" reports either, they're woefully inadequate. In our County, the Sheriff spoke of a PD in the County getting a Flock hit. It was news to many, including Flock's transparency site, that that PD was a user of their services. So I'm not overly surprised by this.
- toraway 7mo ago
  I can't find anything corroborating that example either. I've been seeing a lot of similar grandiose claims made in random comments/Tweets/etc recently that Flock solved this or that specific high profile case that have also turned up zero proof when I did research. I'm not sure whether it's just individual techno optimist fantasy that somehow becomes confabulated in the brain with some other crime in the news as if Flock was actually used, an organized persuasion/lobbying/misinformation campaign, or something else. But I'm seeing it a lot now which feels a bit concerning.
birdo-wordo 7mo ago
Sounds like it's working as intended. These systems don't track people, they provide objective clues and evidence.
- Ajedi32 7mo ago
  By tracking everyone at all times.
ImPostingOnHN 7mo ago
There have been numerous instances where cops used it to stalk exes, etc. If it isn't already, it will be used to stalk a blacklist of dissidents. It will continue to happen as long as the system exists.
nullsanity 7mo ago
Which is fine, because those are owned by private citizens and companies and those citizens are giving their permission to the police to use them. That's the difference between centralized government survalience and CCTVs

ghouse 7mo ago

But the cameras that the law enforcement officers canvas in the area aren't centrally aggregated and tagged with meta data such that they can be queried at scale.

xXSLAYERXx 7mo ago

> However, I've seen multiple times where cops initiate a felony stop At what point do we accept that all systems are flawed? There could be many variables as to why the perp wasn't in the car. Maybe the perp stole the car. Maybe the perp borrowed the car. Maybe these systems do not work well in fog etc etc. I don't know how we're supposed to advance technology that makes us safer without getting into these muky situations from time to time.

mainmailman 7mo ago
Why do anything at all?
- xXSLAYERXx 7mo ago
  Why even deploy such systems? I would support less for sure.
mulmen 7mo ago
Technology is a means to an end, not the end itself. If you can’t make it safe then don’t deploy it.
- xXSLAYERXx 7mo ago
  There must be some level of acceptable failure.
  - mulmen 7mo ago
    Flock, like Palantir, is the Torment Nexus from the famous novel Don’t Create The Torment Nexus. Considering the potential and demonstrated abuse there must be more robust guardrails than currently exist. The required level of safety is more like “nuclear launch codes” or “commercial airliner”, not “local used car lot landing page”. This juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

Firerouge 7mo ago

Do you have a source to your Bryan claim? If you look at the map, there are zero flock cameras reported in that region. None in Moscow Idaho where the murder happened, none in Pullman where he lived, and none showed between the locations.

zythyx 7mo ago
There's a disclaimer when you first open the page that the map is incomplete and that users need to submit the data. It's possible that data hasn't been submitted/parsed yet
- Firerouge 7mo ago
  It's possible, but I can't find a corroborating news report, and it's the first I've heard this claim made about that case.
FireBeyond 7mo ago
You can't rely on Flock's "transparency" reports either, they're woefully inadequate. In our County, the Sheriff spoke of a PD in the County getting a Flock hit. It was news to many, including Flock's transparency site, that that PD was a user of their services. So I'm not overly surprised by this.
toraway 7mo ago
I can't find anything corroborating that example either. I've been seeing a lot of similar grandiose claims made in random comments/Tweets/etc recently that Flock solved this or that specific high profile case that have also turned up zero proof when I did research. I'm not sure whether it's just individual techno optimist fantasy that somehow becomes confabulated in the brain with some other crime in the news as if Flock was actually used, an organized persuasion/lobbying/misinformation campaign, or something else. But I'm seeing it a lot now which feels a bit concerning.

birdo-wordo 7mo ago

Sounds like it's working as intended. These systems don't track people, they provide objective clues and evidence.

Ajedi32 7mo ago
By tracking everyone at all times.

ImPostingOnHN 7mo ago

There have been numerous instances where cops used it to stalk exes, etc. If it isn't already, it will be used to stalk a blacklist of dissidents. It will continue to happen as long as the system exists.

nullsanity 7mo ago

Which is fine, because those are owned by private citizens and companies and those citizens are giving their permission to the police to use them. That's the difference between centralized government survalience and CCTVs