3 ms·

Glad to hear it - but cost of renewable energy isn't the software or hardware locked behind vendors. Its installers, wholesalers and permitting. Pricing is se

by boringg 7mo ago

Glad to hear it - but cost of renewable energy isn't the software or hardware locked behind vendors. Its installers, wholesalers and permitting. Pricing is set to about where homeowners will be willing to pay and installers will make a good profit. If only it was a 5 year payback - we'd see it everywhere in NA.

progbits 7mo ago
Not sure cost saving is the priority. I got solar installed by the local power company and while it's well done and was a great deal regarding the price, the inverter stats are locked behind a really terrible app. At least there isn't a subscription cost but I wouldn't be surprised if they add one someday. Would gladly pay more for fully open and serviceable replacement.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  The stats are the least of your problem, the bigger ones are remote updates, planned obsolescence, hacking and bricking.
- boringg 7mo ago
  I get that - but also solar should be cheap. If we lower the cost of power we knock off a lot of the bad externalities of power production and allow people to be more inventive with their power use. Agreed - a lot of the inverters do some real BS moves around data management clearly a way to extract more value in a subscription mode. Its mind numbingly frustrating.
  - SoftTalker 7mo ago
    Price isn't determined by the cost of supply but by the value provided to the buyer.
bityard 7mo ago
Yes, and? This project isn't being marketd to people who call up a company to white-glove the whole-home installation end-to-end. This is for DIYers who have enough knowledge to tinker with self-designed solar projects but not the EE degree required to engineer some of the more specialized equipment themselves. I'll give a good example: I use solar to power a ham radio station for a weekend in the summer. However, nearly ALL of the equipment you can buy for the production and storage of solar power emits some degree of radio-frequency interference, which is bad when your whole goal is to power a very sensitive radio. When it comes to charge controllers in particular, there are exactly two companies that claim to make RFI-quiet MPPT controllers. One has mixed reviews (some people say they work great, some say they are not any better than anything else), and one is very good but also very expensive for what you get. So, more open design and community feedback from people like me might get the cost of a reliable RFI-free charge controller down to where it should be.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  That's especially nasty when you're doing LF or VLF because the frequencies of the switches in those things are right in the middle of the bands that you are trying to receive.
jillesvangurp 7mo ago
In the US the cost of the red tape / bureaucracy is about 3-4x the cost of the total installation in places like Australia on a per kw basis. Including the Ozzy red tape. The US just has very inefficient bureaucracy. In Australia you can go from the notion of "hmm I might want to put some solar on my roof" to having it, approved, installed and running in a couple of weeks. Safely and legally. In the US you lose months at best. Half a year is nothing. And everybody involved wants to make a profit so that's where all the cost goes. The crazy thing is that even with all that cost and bloat it's still worth doing. Imagine how good it would be if the US could figure out how to do stuff efficiently. Both cost and complexity have to come down there. A lot of the friction in the system is a combination of the fossil fuel industry lobbying very successfully against anything to do with renewables, local energy monopolists resisting change and the notion of competition from their own customers (or any form of competition), and inept politicians coming up with ways to keep those happy. And as an EU person, it's not that much better here. Better than the US. But we can do better.

by boringg 7mo ago

progbits 7mo ago

Not sure cost saving is the priority. I got solar installed by the local power company and while it's well done and was a great deal regarding the price, the inverter stats are locked behind a really terrible app. At least there isn't a subscription cost but I wouldn't be surprised if they add one someday. Would gladly pay more for fully open and serviceable replacement.

jacquesm 7mo ago
The stats are the least of your problem, the bigger ones are remote updates, planned obsolescence, hacking and bricking.
boringg 7mo ago
I get that - but also solar should be cheap. If we lower the cost of power we knock off a lot of the bad externalities of power production and allow people to be more inventive with their power use. Agreed - a lot of the inverters do some real BS moves around data management clearly a way to extract more value in a subscription mode. Its mind numbingly frustrating.
- SoftTalker 7mo ago
  Price isn't determined by the cost of supply but by the value provided to the buyer.

bityard 7mo ago

Yes, and? This project isn't being marketd to people who call up a company to white-glove the whole-home installation end-to-end. This is for DIYers who have enough knowledge to tinker with self-designed solar projects but not the EE degree required to engineer some of the more specialized equipment themselves. I'll give a good example: I use solar to power a ham radio station for a weekend in the summer. However, nearly ALL of the equipment you can buy for the production and storage of solar power emits some degree of radio-frequency interference, which is bad when your whole goal is to power a very sensitive radio. When it comes to charge controllers in particular, there are exactly two companies that claim to make RFI-quiet MPPT controllers. One has mixed reviews (some people say they work great, some say they are not any better than anything else), and one is very good but also very expensive for what you get. So, more open design and community feedback from people like me might get the cost of a reliable RFI-free charge controller down to where it should be.

jacquesm 7mo ago
That's especially nasty when you're doing LF or VLF because the frequencies of the switches in those things are right in the middle of the bands that you are trying to receive.

jillesvangurp 7mo ago

In the US the cost of the red tape / bureaucracy is about 3-4x the cost of the total installation in places like Australia on a per kw basis. Including the Ozzy red tape. The US just has very inefficient bureaucracy. In Australia you can go from the notion of "hmm I might want to put some solar on my roof" to having it, approved, installed and running in a couple of weeks. Safely and legally. In the US you lose months at best. Half a year is nothing. And everybody involved wants to make a profit so that's where all the cost goes. The crazy thing is that even with all that cost and bloat it's still worth doing. Imagine how good it would be if the US could figure out how to do stuff efficiently. Both cost and complexity have to come down there. A lot of the friction in the system is a combination of the fossil fuel industry lobbying very successfully against anything to do with renewables, local energy monopolists resisting change and the notion of competition from their own customers (or any form of competition), and inept politicians coming up with ways to keep those happy. And as an EU person, it's not that much better here. Better than the US. But we can do better.