3 ms·

i didn't even know usbc2 ports were a thing

by ruined 7mo ago

yndoendo 7mo ago
The USB-C ports are unbalanced. Should have one on the left and right, not side by side. Unbalanced USB-C ports has become a common bad design in the laptop industry.
- freeone3000 7mo ago
  Commodity hubs, especially USB2, come with lots of ports; it's up to how many connectors you can reasonably fit on the chassis. But running a trace across the board for USB isn't a great sell. Getting a second board on the other side isn't a great sell, especially for budget computers like this one. So we end up with "unbalanced" ports.
  - matthewfcarlson 7mo ago
    Yup- if you put usb ports on both sides of the laptop you need a retimer chip as the traces are too long/suffer EMI. Which adds to BOM cost.
  - yndoendo 7mo ago
    "Unbalanced" USB-C and USB-A ports on a laptop is a bad design. We should be calling out bad designs. HP, Lenovo, Asus, ACER, Dell, ... all contribute to this bad design. Apple even uses unbalanced USB-C ports on the MacBook Air. This is why I choose the Framework laptop over the big names. Their design has balanced USB ports were it can be charged from the left or right. Balanced power USB ports improves user experience with using on a couch or in a bed. Plugging in two USB to NIC adapters allows the weight to be balanced while working on a lap or some other non-desk environment. Balanced USB-C ports sold me and what I first look at when reviewing a laptop.
klodolph 7mo ago
There are also USB-C 2 cables.
- eigencoder 7mo ago
  USB-C is the bane of my existence. Everything looks the same, but certain cables won't charge certain devices for seemingly no reason, and other cables won't transfer data, and there's no easy way (AFAIK) to tell the difference
  - eigen 7mo ago
    > certain cables won't charge certain devices not sure how you can make a cable that doesnt connect power from end to end. I can see if it doesnt charge as fast as others if it doesnt have the bits required for higher current support. and if a device requires >5V to charge, thats on the device not the cable. > other cables won't transfer data again, not sure you can make a cable that doesnt connect the USB2 pair from end to end. but if device doesnt use USB2 and requires something else without mentioning it then that again seems to be on the device not the cable.
    - eigencoder 7mo ago
      It's probably a problem with my devices. I've never seen these problems with more expensive devices, but my cheap bluetooth speakers will only charge with certain cables. I also have cheap cables that don't seem able to do data transfer. Guessing it's not actually following the USB-C spec.
      - craftkiller 7mo ago
        Are your bluetooth speakers connected over a C-to-C cable or is there any legacy USB in the mix (type-A and/or microusb)? The reason I ask is legacy USB expected 5 volts to be supplied by default, whereas in type-C you have to specifically request any current. So some C-to-A / A-to-C adapters/cables include the resistors to request the current whereas others do not, leading to legacy USB devices not getting power through some adapters/cables.
    - dhosek 7mo ago
      USB c cables aren’t merely wires and connectors but have some electronics embedded on them.
craftkiller 7mo ago
The first USB type C device was a usb 2.0 device: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1

i didn't even know usbc2 ports were a thing

by ruined 7mo ago

i didn't even know usbc2 ports were a thing

The USB-C ports are unbalanced. Should have one on the left and right, not side by side. Unbalanced USB-C ports has become a common bad design in the laptop industry.

freeone3000 7mo ago
Commodity hubs, especially USB2, come with lots of ports; it's up to how many connectors you can reasonably fit on the chassis. But running a trace across the board for USB isn't a great sell. Getting a second board on the other side isn't a great sell, especially for budget computers like this one. So we end up with "unbalanced" ports.
- matthewfcarlson 7mo ago
  Yup- if you put usb ports on both sides of the laptop you need a retimer chip as the traces are too long/suffer EMI. Which adds to BOM cost.
- yndoendo 7mo ago
  "Unbalanced" USB-C and USB-A ports on a laptop is a bad design. We should be calling out bad designs. HP, Lenovo, Asus, ACER, Dell, ... all contribute to this bad design. Apple even uses unbalanced USB-C ports on the MacBook Air. This is why I choose the Framework laptop over the big names. Their design has balanced USB ports were it can be charged from the left or right. Balanced power USB ports improves user experience with using on a couch or in a bed. Plugging in two USB to NIC adapters allows the weight to be balanced while working on a lap or some other non-desk environment. Balanced USB-C ports sold me and what I first look at when reviewing a laptop.

klodolph 7mo ago

There are also USB-C 2 cables.

eigencoder 7mo ago
USB-C is the bane of my existence. Everything looks the same, but certain cables won't charge certain devices for seemingly no reason, and other cables won't transfer data, and there's no easy way (AFAIK) to tell the difference
- eigen 7mo ago
  > certain cables won't charge certain devices not sure how you can make a cable that doesnt connect power from end to end. I can see if it doesnt charge as fast as others if it doesnt have the bits required for higher current support. and if a device requires >5V to charge, thats on the device not the cable. > other cables won't transfer data again, not sure you can make a cable that doesnt connect the USB2 pair from end to end. but if device doesnt use USB2 and requires something else without mentioning it then that again seems to be on the device not the cable.
  - eigencoder 7mo ago
    It's probably a problem with my devices. I've never seen these problems with more expensive devices, but my cheap bluetooth speakers will only charge with certain cables. I also have cheap cables that don't seem able to do data transfer. Guessing it's not actually following the USB-C spec.
    - craftkiller 7mo ago
      Are your bluetooth speakers connected over a C-to-C cable or is there any legacy USB in the mix (type-A and/or microusb)? The reason I ask is legacy USB expected 5 volts to be supplied by default, whereas in type-C you have to specifically request any current. So some C-to-A / A-to-C adapters/cables include the resistors to request the current whereas others do not, leading to legacy USB devices not getting power through some adapters/cables.
  - dhosek 7mo ago
    USB c cables aren’t merely wires and connectors but have some electronics embedded on them.

craftkiller 7mo ago

The first USB type C device was a usb 2.0 device: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N1