4 ms·

> nobody should believe for a second that WhatsApp or FB messages are truly E2EE That's interesting. You think all firms that audited WhatsApp and Signal proto

> nobody should believe for a second that WhatsApp or FB messages are truly E2EE That's interesting. You think all firms that audited WhatsApp and Signal protocol used by WhatsApp and all programmers who worked there for decades and can see a lie and leak if it was true are all crooks? valid opinion I guess, but I won't call it "no one should believe for a second (curious you didn't mention Telegram, it is actually marketed as secure and e2e and it has completely gimped "secret chats" that are off by default and used by like almost nobody.)

giancarlostoro 7mo ago
I forget if its WhatsApp that technically lets you sync chats in unencrypted form to iCloud which is the “loophole” around this, though you can lockdown your iCloud even tighter, not sure it Apple can do much if you fully lock down your iCloud, not sure if this has been legally tested? Its not a very advertised feature its just a setting.
- throwaway290 7mo ago
  Right now it got a switch to enable e2e for backups, but yeah I think default backup is probably a workaround...
- gzread 7mo ago
  The Android version syncs all your chat logs to Google Drive without encryption by default. That's the backdoor.
- oarsinsync 7mo ago
  WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. iMessage also syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[2]. [1] Depends on you paying for iCloud storage, so that you have space for a full phone backup to occur. [2] Might be "free" with "iMessage in iCloud", an option to enable separately.
  - throwaway290 7mo ago
    > WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. Not true. You must choose to enable it or not when you set up new phone. On mine it does not back up
    - monooso 7mo ago
      If you must "choose to enable" encryption, that implies it's off by default. If so, GP's statement is accurate.
      - simsla 7mo ago
        Choose to enable backups.
      - throwaway290 7mo ago
        No, I mean you must select yes or no. can't use WhatsApp until you make a choice yourself.
- ianburrell 7mo ago
  iCloud backups are encrypted, and can be end-to-end encrypted. Also, backups have nothing to do with the messages being end-to-end encrypted. Like if you don't use a passcode on the phone, the messages are still encrypted.
max-privatevoid 7mo ago
I'll believe it when it's FOSS
- throwaway290 7mo ago
  You mean you will read all code with dependencies and compile it yourself to make sure?;) good for you. but good luck creating a popular e2e messenger then.

giancarlostoro 7mo ago

I forget if its WhatsApp that technically lets you sync chats in unencrypted form to iCloud which is the “loophole” around this, though you can lockdown your iCloud even tighter, not sure it Apple can do much if you fully lock down your iCloud, not sure if this has been legally tested? Its not a very advertised feature its just a setting.

throwaway290 7mo ago
Right now it got a switch to enable e2e for backups, but yeah I think default backup is probably a workaround...
gzread 7mo ago
The Android version syncs all your chat logs to Google Drive without encryption by default. That's the backdoor.
oarsinsync 7mo ago
WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. iMessage also syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[2]. [1] Depends on you paying for iCloud storage, so that you have space for a full phone backup to occur. [2] Might be "free" with "iMessage in iCloud", an option to enable separately.
- throwaway290 7mo ago
  > WhatsApp iPhone syncs to iCloud unencrypted by default[1]. Not true. You must choose to enable it or not when you set up new phone. On mine it does not back up
  - monooso 7mo ago
    If you must "choose to enable" encryption, that implies it's off by default. If so, GP's statement is accurate.
    - simsla 7mo ago
      Choose to enable backups.
    - throwaway290 7mo ago
      No, I mean you must select yes or no. can't use WhatsApp until you make a choice yourself.
ianburrell 7mo ago
iCloud backups are encrypted, and can be end-to-end encrypted. Also, backups have nothing to do with the messages being end-to-end encrypted. Like if you don't use a passcode on the phone, the messages are still encrypted.

max-privatevoid 7mo ago

I'll believe it when it's FOSS

throwaway290 7mo ago
You mean you will read all code with dependencies and compile it yourself to make sure?;) good for you. but good luck creating a popular e2e messenger then.