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That's because of a fundamental perceptual limitation — tokenization. That's like saying that humans aren't intelligent because we can't perceive UV light. That

That's because of a fundamental perceptual limitation — tokenization. That's like saying that humans aren't intelligent because we can't perceive UV light. That's a shallow gotcha at best, it doesn't get to the heart of the matter at all. Also, models will just write code for that sort of thing now.

albatross79 7mo ago
The heart of the matter is a system that produces correct output in a wide variety of scenarios, including ones outside our scope of experience or understanding. That would be a one definition of AI. LLMs are not that, and I don't understand the desperate insistence that they are. Just accept what it is. A good auto complete is useful, a crappy AI is a marketing scam.
- logicprog 7mo ago
  > a system that produces correct output in a wide variety of scenarios, including ones outside our scope of experience or understanding Where does this definition come from? I certainly don't agree with it, and I am not sure who does, besides yourself and Marcus. Also it seems that you're saying AI does, in fact, mean 'perfect' AI, basically? > A good auto complete is useful, a crappy AI is a marketing scam. LLM agents do a lot more than auto complete now, and using them less like auto complete and more like 'AI' (via agents) has actually made them more useful and less crappy! Also, I don't think framing how modern RLVR'd LLMs operate now as as auto complete even makes a whole lot of sense in the first place.
  - albatross79 7mo ago
    It's a common sense definition that covers the broad features of AI as most people would have imagined it before LLMs came along. If you have a better one I'm open to it. Also, agents are just LLMs with harnessing. Attaching a plow to a horse makes it more useful too, but it doesn't change the intrinsic nature of a horse.
XenophileJKO 7mo ago
At some point you just have to stop responding to these "stochastic parrot/auto-complete" people. It isn't worth your intellectual bandwidth. They will eventually understand or they won't (Which I'm not sure how that is going to work for them... but the Amish had to start somewhere I suppose..)

albatross79 7mo ago

The heart of the matter is a system that produces correct output in a wide variety of scenarios, including ones outside our scope of experience or understanding. That would be a one definition of AI. LLMs are not that, and I don't understand the desperate insistence that they are. Just accept what it is. A good auto complete is useful, a crappy AI is a marketing scam.

logicprog 7mo ago
> a system that produces correct output in a wide variety of scenarios, including ones outside our scope of experience or understanding Where does this definition come from? I certainly don't agree with it, and I am not sure who does, besides yourself and Marcus. Also it seems that you're saying AI does, in fact, mean 'perfect' AI, basically? > A good auto complete is useful, a crappy AI is a marketing scam. LLM agents do a lot more than auto complete now, and using them less like auto complete and more like 'AI' (via agents) has actually made them more useful and less crappy! Also, I don't think framing how modern RLVR'd LLMs operate now as as auto complete even makes a whole lot of sense in the first place.
- albatross79 7mo ago
  It's a common sense definition that covers the broad features of AI as most people would have imagined it before LLMs came along. If you have a better one I'm open to it. Also, agents are just LLMs with harnessing. Attaching a plow to a horse makes it more useful too, but it doesn't change the intrinsic nature of a horse.

XenophileJKO 7mo ago

At some point you just have to stop responding to these "stochastic parrot/auto-complete" people. It isn't worth your intellectual bandwidth. They will eventually understand or they won't (Which I'm not sure how that is going to work for them... but the Amish had to start somewhere I suppose..)