4 ms·

Majority of laptops works "pretty well out of the box".

by thrdbndndn 7mo ago

system2 7mo ago
I urge you to try HP.
- cookiengineer 7mo ago
  ^ this comment is more relevant than people might think. HP regularly deploys broken BIOS updates and literally bricks your laptops. Happened in 2023 I think 7 times that year, and one time even right in the next week. Our IT got so fed up and ditched any HP laptops because of it.
  - userbinator 7mo ago
    Never update your BIOS unless you have a specific bug that needs fixed. I remember a Thinkpad BIOS update ended up destroying both undervolting and overclocking, and required a "chip-clip" programmer to revert.
    - wtallis 7mo ago
      That advice doesn't hold up very well when in recent years we've had multiple instances of a BIOS update being necessary to deal with the problem of "the CPU gets fed too high a voltage and dies prematurely". That's happened to both Intel and AMD desktop CPUs. It's a real problem that BIOS updates for consumer systems never come with a meaningful changelog, so evaluating whether a particular update is a good idea or not is basically impossible.
      - Guestmodinfo 7mo ago
        I would strongly advice against buying HP laptops if you want to install linux because MX linux worked well on mine pre-owned HP, Zorin OS worked well but somehow I could not install AntiX linux and secure boot of HP troubled me too much and I could install OpenBSD on it but each time I would restart then it would kernel panic and I would havento reinstall. Combined with a long holiday when I left it at home. Now my HP is practically bricked. It is not starting
      - userbinator 7mo ago
        That advice holds up very well when taken along with "don't buy the very first major release".
    - cmckn 7mo ago
      I built a tower several years ago and it had CPU temp issues from the start. I RMA’d the cooler, reapplied the thermal paste a couple times, reassembled the whole build, etc. It wasn’t my main machine, but every time I sat down to use it the CPU would run hot and thermal-throttle. It’s an i9 with P/E cores, so I just chalked it up to Linux power management woes. A couple months ago I was on the brink of selling it for parts, but updated the BIOS as a Hail Mary. Totally fixed it. I guess I did “ have a specific bug that needs fixed”; I just didn’t know it!
    - cookiengineer 7mo ago
      People don't have a choice to update their BIOS, as updates like this are automatically installed, by both Windows and the underlying Intel ME tools. (And I'm trying to avoid talking about microcode updates, which is a whole other story of fuckups) Regarding Thinkpad BIOS: I have a Raspberry Pi Zero and a self soldered RP2040 programmer [1] in my travel kit for a reason. When travelling, a lot of the Cellebrite rootkits rely on an OEM BIOS, so they typically reflash your BIOS in the "we gonna check your laptop" phase. [1] would totally recommend serprog, it's awesome: https://codeberg.org/Riku_V/pico-serprog https://codeberg.org/Riku_V/pico-serprog
    - cromka 7mo ago
      Most of the laptop BIOS updates are now for CVEs and other security fixes, from my experience. You don't have much choice but upgrade.
      - userbinator 7mo ago
        These are for "security" against the user, to be fair.
tombert 7mo ago
Not with Linux, typically. If you don't have drivers included in the kernel, it requires a lot of effort to get things working. I've done it many times, so now I will generally only buy laptops that have decent Linux support. [1] I've had the laptop for about two years now and it still runs just as well as the day I bought it. I'm very happy with it. [1] No I will not stick with Windows. Please feel free to read through my comment history to see why, but TL;DR I just don't like it.
- zdragnar 7mo ago
  I've had linux on every laptop I've owned for years, and I haven't really had a problem with any of them running linux, except for display port support on a dell xps. Aside from that one dell laptop, though, I generally avoid HP and dell entirely, so perhaps that's why.
  - tombert 7mo ago
    In 2013 I bought a laptop that I kept five years that had an Nvidia Optimus. I never really figured out how to get the discrete card working consistently, and since then I haven't bought a laptop with an Nvidia card. I've had issues with wifi cards and sound drivers and the like as well, though it's going a lot better now than it was a decade ago.
    - zdragnar 7mo ago
      Weird. I must have uncommonly good fortune, as I don't think I've had Wi-Fi or sound issues for longer than that. I remember when I first tried out swaywm and having some sound issues because I also started moving to pipewore from pulseaudio, but nothing from an out of the box install of a decent distro.

Majority of laptops works "pretty well out of the box".

system2 7mo ago

I urge you to try HP.

cookiengineer 7mo ago
^ this comment is more relevant than people might think. HP regularly deploys broken BIOS updates and literally bricks your laptops. Happened in 2023 I think 7 times that year, and one time even right in the next week. Our IT got so fed up and ditched any HP laptops because of it.
- userbinator 7mo ago
  Never update your BIOS unless you have a specific bug that needs fixed. I remember a Thinkpad BIOS update ended up destroying both undervolting and overclocking, and required a "chip-clip" programmer to revert.
  - wtallis 7mo ago
    That advice doesn't hold up very well when in recent years we've had multiple instances of a BIOS update being necessary to deal with the problem of "the CPU gets fed too high a voltage and dies prematurely". That's happened to both Intel and AMD desktop CPUs. It's a real problem that BIOS updates for consumer systems never come with a meaningful changelog, so evaluating whether a particular update is a good idea or not is basically impossible.
    - Guestmodinfo 7mo ago
      I would strongly advice against buying HP laptops if you want to install linux because MX linux worked well on mine pre-owned HP, Zorin OS worked well but somehow I could not install AntiX linux and secure boot of HP troubled me too much and I could install OpenBSD on it but each time I would restart then it would kernel panic and I would havento reinstall. Combined with a long holiday when I left it at home. Now my HP is practically bricked. It is not starting
    - userbinator 7mo ago
      That advice holds up very well when taken along with "don't buy the very first major release".
  - cmckn 7mo ago
    I built a tower several years ago and it had CPU temp issues from the start. I RMA’d the cooler, reapplied the thermal paste a couple times, reassembled the whole build, etc. It wasn’t my main machine, but every time I sat down to use it the CPU would run hot and thermal-throttle. It’s an i9 with P/E cores, so I just chalked it up to Linux power management woes. A couple months ago I was on the brink of selling it for parts, but updated the BIOS as a Hail Mary. Totally fixed it. I guess I did “ have a specific bug that needs fixed”; I just didn’t know it!
  - cookiengineer 7mo ago
    People don't have a choice to update their BIOS, as updates like this are automatically installed, by both Windows and the underlying Intel ME tools. (And I'm trying to avoid talking about microcode updates, which is a whole other story of fuckups) Regarding Thinkpad BIOS: I have a Raspberry Pi Zero and a self soldered RP2040 programmer [1] in my travel kit for a reason. When travelling, a lot of the Cellebrite rootkits rely on an OEM BIOS, so they typically reflash your BIOS in the "we gonna check your laptop" phase. [1] would totally recommend serprog, it's awesome: https://codeberg.org/Riku_V/pico-serprog https://codeberg.org/Riku_V/pico-serprog
  - cromka 7mo ago
    Most of the laptop BIOS updates are now for CVEs and other security fixes, from my experience. You don't have much choice but upgrade.
    - userbinator 7mo ago
      These are for "security" against the user, to be fair.

tombert 7mo ago

Not with Linux, typically. If you don't have drivers included in the kernel, it requires a lot of effort to get things working. I've done it many times, so now I will generally only buy laptops that have decent Linux support. [1] I've had the laptop for about two years now and it still runs just as well as the day I bought it. I'm very happy with it. [1] No I will not stick with Windows. Please feel free to read through my comment history to see why, but TL;DR I just don't like it.

zdragnar 7mo ago
I've had linux on every laptop I've owned for years, and I haven't really had a problem with any of them running linux, except for display port support on a dell xps. Aside from that one dell laptop, though, I generally avoid HP and dell entirely, so perhaps that's why.
- tombert 7mo ago
  In 2013 I bought a laptop that I kept five years that had an Nvidia Optimus. I never really figured out how to get the discrete card working consistently, and since then I haven't bought a laptop with an Nvidia card. I've had issues with wifi cards and sound drivers and the like as well, though it's going a lot better now than it was a decade ago.
  - zdragnar 7mo ago
    Weird. I must have uncommonly good fortune, as I don't think I've had Wi-Fi or sound issues for longer than that. I remember when I first tried out swaywm and having some sound issues because I also started moving to pipewore from pulseaudio, but nothing from an out of the box install of a decent distro.