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How my tax dollars are spent is a domestic issue. As is not implicating me in war crimes. > They're not, you're just in a small minority The majority do not s

How my tax dollars are spent is a domestic issue. As is not implicating me in war crimes. > They're not, you're just in a small minority The majority do not support this war, nor do they support Israel. Our politicians refusing to listen to the electorate is also a domestic issue. As are the many attempts that Israel has made to strip us of our fundamental rights.

ajross 7mo ago
For clarity, I'm not saying the minority position is "wrong". I'm saying that holding a minority position is not a priori evidence that Deep State Illuminati Elite Power Centers are conspiring against you. They're not. You're just weird.
- gravisultra 7mo ago
  I'm talking about the majority position, not minority.
  - ajross 7mo ago
    So, no, you're not. Or you're misunderstanding how this works. "Stop the war in Iran" is a majority position in polls. People don't vote on that, because people don't care about the war in Iran. Instead, wars at the ballot box are fought over which ethnicity needs to be the target of state violence, or whether or not it's a good thing for citizens to have health care. And those wars are serious, and hard-fought, and occasionally slip off the edge into non-democratic authoritarianism. But voters don't care about Iran. So Iran policy is dominated by the interests of non-voting/non-democratic power structures like US business interests and geopolitical long-term desires. And on these issues, those power structures show marked agreement. So that's what we do, modulo tactical considerations (e.g. the Obama administration pursued a policy of containment and treaty engagement out of conservatism, where Trump installed a bunch of trigger happy cowboys who want to watch bombs on TV; but both viewed Iran as an enemy to be opposed, and for the same reasons). So I repeat: to you, if you happen to view Iran policy as extremely important, it must feel like The System is conspiring against you to manipulate public opinion. But it's not. It's operating as designed, and 100% democratically. You are just in a minority, and this is what being in a minority feels like.
    - gravisultra 7mo ago
      > "Stop the war in Iran" is a majority position in polls. People don't vote on that, because people don't care about the war in Iran. This is simply incorrect and pure wishful thinking on your part. > You are just in a minority, and this is what being in a minority feels like. Once again, I'm in the majority. The majority of people do not support Israel or the war against Iran.
    - ImPostingOnHN 7mo ago
      By this logic, everything any politician does would by definition be exactly what their constituents want, regardless of polling on any particular issue, because they still voted for the politician. To wit: there are I issues and P positions for each issue, yet there are not I*P ballot choices, so people inevitably get something they don't want. The logic also falls apart when you realize politicians can do whatever they want after getting elected, including flipping their positions on issues that got them elected (like no war), regardless of what the voters want.
      - ajross 7mo ago
        > To wit: there are I issues and P positions for each issue, yet there are not I * P ballot choices, so people inevitably get something they don't want. Sigh. I hate the internet. That was exactly my point. Thank you. The democratic process inherently produces outcomes where not every action taken by a government has majority support. Always. Inevitably. And, precisely because this is an inevitable result, arguments of the form that such actions represent the manipulation of the government by a conspiracy of elites suppressing the will of the masses are, in the jargon, batshit. There is no conspiracy. You're just, to repeat for the fifth time, in a minority. Not on the issue itself, but on your prioritization. Sure, lots of people might "agree" with you, but no one gives enough of a shit to change their vote. So the government chases the votes instead, and the interests of those who can deliver the votes.
        gravisultra 7mo ago
        This is the logic that cost Kamala Harris the election. Liberals are absolutely addicted to putting their head in the sand about how much people care about genocide and Israel's influence on our lives. We've hit the breaking point, Zionism is no longer electorally valid.

ajross 7mo ago

For clarity, I'm not saying the minority position is "wrong". I'm saying that holding a minority position is not a priori evidence that Deep State Illuminati Elite Power Centers are conspiring against you. They're not. You're just weird.

gravisultra 7mo ago
I'm talking about the majority position, not minority.
- ajross 7mo ago
  So, no, you're not. Or you're misunderstanding how this works. "Stop the war in Iran" is a majority position in polls. People don't vote on that, because people don't care about the war in Iran. Instead, wars at the ballot box are fought over which ethnicity needs to be the target of state violence, or whether or not it's a good thing for citizens to have health care. And those wars are serious, and hard-fought, and occasionally slip off the edge into non-democratic authoritarianism. But voters don't care about Iran. So Iran policy is dominated by the interests of non-voting/non-democratic power structures like US business interests and geopolitical long-term desires. And on these issues, those power structures show marked agreement. So that's what we do, modulo tactical considerations (e.g. the Obama administration pursued a policy of containment and treaty engagement out of conservatism, where Trump installed a bunch of trigger happy cowboys who want to watch bombs on TV; but both viewed Iran as an enemy to be opposed, and for the same reasons). So I repeat: to you, if you happen to view Iran policy as extremely important, it must feel like The System is conspiring against you to manipulate public opinion. But it's not. It's operating as designed, and 100% democratically. You are just in a minority, and this is what being in a minority feels like.
  - gravisultra 7mo ago
    > "Stop the war in Iran" is a majority position in polls. People don't vote on that, because people don't care about the war in Iran. This is simply incorrect and pure wishful thinking on your part. > You are just in a minority, and this is what being in a minority feels like. Once again, I'm in the majority. The majority of people do not support Israel or the war against Iran.
  - ImPostingOnHN 7mo ago
    By this logic, everything any politician does would by definition be exactly what their constituents want, regardless of polling on any particular issue, because they still voted for the politician. To wit: there are I issues and P positions for each issue, yet there are not I*P ballot choices, so people inevitably get something they don't want. The logic also falls apart when you realize politicians can do whatever they want after getting elected, including flipping their positions on issues that got them elected (like no war), regardless of what the voters want.
    - ajross 7mo ago
      > To wit: there are I issues and P positions for each issue, yet there are not I * P ballot choices, so people inevitably get something they don't want. Sigh. I hate the internet. That was exactly my point. Thank you. The democratic process inherently produces outcomes where not every action taken by a government has majority support. Always. Inevitably. And, precisely because this is an inevitable result, arguments of the form that such actions represent the manipulation of the government by a conspiracy of elites suppressing the will of the masses are, in the jargon, batshit. There is no conspiracy. You're just, to repeat for the fifth time, in a minority. Not on the issue itself, but on your prioritization. Sure, lots of people might "agree" with you, but no one gives enough of a shit to change their vote. So the government chases the votes instead, and the interests of those who can deliver the votes.
      - gravisultra 7mo ago
        This is the logic that cost Kamala Harris the election. Liberals are absolutely addicted to putting their head in the sand about how much people care about genocide and Israel's influence on our lives. We've hit the breaking point, Zionism is no longer electorally valid.