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Is it possible to sue a patent troll for time and legal fees if you win the original case? I know they are basically shell corporations, but it would be great

Is it possible to sue a patent troll for time and legal fees if you win the original case? I know they are basically shell corporations, but it would be great to see these patent cases incurring some risk for the trolls.

debacle 14y ago
What is the risk to a company whose only asset is the patent which, should they fail to win their case, is probably useless anyway?
- rayiner 14y ago
  Welcome to the problem of limited liability corporations in general. You think it's irksome to win a judgment against a shell that has no assets in the patent troll context, imagine it in the environmental damage, shareholder fraud, etc, context.
  - jlarocco 14y ago
    On the other hand, imagine losing your house, car and savings because somebody finds a bug in your product and sues you...
    - rayiner 14y ago
      Presumably if you're designing products that could cause that much damage if they malfunction, you can buy insurance against any resulting problems. Limited liability is a public subsidy for big business--it reduces the cost of inherently risky business activity by shifting those costs to the injured public rather than to the business owners. It's really arguable whether such incentives are needed and whether liability insurance wouldn't be a more appropriate measure.
      - debacle 14y ago
        Most LLCs have assets and thus require liability insurance anyway. The tech sector is a small slice of the business space. Lets phrase it another way - you get a bad shipment of chocolate from a supplier, and your cookies send a handful of kids into allergic shock from the peanuts tainting the chocolate. One of them dies. You're likely going to be sued, and your liability insurance is likely a drop in the bucket (enough to cover your business assets). Do you still deserve to lose your house?
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Could it be possible to pierce the corporate veil in these cases and go after the people actually running them? Seems like the correct response, if these people are using corporations as throw-away legal weapons.
  - debacle 14y ago
    As a business owner, I like my corporate veil case law just as it is, thank you.
at-fates-hands 14y ago
Absolutely. http://www.flhlaw.com/pubs/xprPubDetail.aspx?xpST=PubDetail&pub=16 http://www.flhlaw.com/pubs/xprPubDetail.aspx?xpST=PubDetail&... "Under Section 285 of the Patent statute, courts have discretion to award reasonable attorneys’ fees in patent infringement cases that are deemed “exceptional.” 35 U.S.C. § 285. The Federal Circuit noted that while the threat of enhanced damages for willful infringement under 35 U.S.C. § 284 deters bad faith conduct on the part of the accused infringer, the threat of attorneys’ fees under Section 285 is “the only deterrent to the equally improper bringing of clearly unwarranted suits on invalid or unenforceable patents.” Mathis v. Spears, 857 F.2d 749, 754 (Fed. Cir. 1988). Section 285 provides: The court in exceptional cases may award reasonable attorneys’ fees to the prevailing party. 35 U.S.C. § 285."
- scromar 14y ago
  Additional fee shifting information from a recent federal circuit ruling here: http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/10/should-we-move-toward-more-fee-shifting-in-patent-cases.html http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/10/should-we-move-towar...

debacle 14y ago

What is the risk to a company whose only asset is the patent which, should they fail to win their case, is probably useless anyway?

rayiner 14y ago
Welcome to the problem of limited liability corporations in general. You think it's irksome to win a judgment against a shell that has no assets in the patent troll context, imagine it in the environmental damage, shareholder fraud, etc, context.
- jlarocco 14y ago
  On the other hand, imagine losing your house, car and savings because somebody finds a bug in your product and sues you...
  - rayiner 14y ago
    Presumably if you're designing products that could cause that much damage if they malfunction, you can buy insurance against any resulting problems. Limited liability is a public subsidy for big business--it reduces the cost of inherently risky business activity by shifting those costs to the injured public rather than to the business owners. It's really arguable whether such incentives are needed and whether liability insurance wouldn't be a more appropriate measure.
    - debacle 14y ago
      Most LLCs have assets and thus require liability insurance anyway. The tech sector is a small slice of the business space. Lets phrase it another way - you get a bad shipment of chocolate from a supplier, and your cookies send a handful of kids into allergic shock from the peanuts tainting the chocolate. One of them dies. You're likely going to be sued, and your liability insurance is likely a drop in the bucket (enough to cover your business assets). Do you still deserve to lose your house?
jlgreco 14y ago
Could it be possible to pierce the corporate veil in these cases and go after the people actually running them? Seems like the correct response, if these people are using corporations as throw-away legal weapons.
- debacle 14y ago
  As a business owner, I like my corporate veil case law just as it is, thank you.

at-fates-hands 14y ago

Absolutely. http://www.flhlaw.com/pubs/xprPubDetail.aspx?xpST=PubDetail&pub=16 http://www.flhlaw.com/pubs/xprPubDetail.aspx?xpST=PubDetail&... "Under Section 285 of the Patent statute, courts have discretion to award reasonable attorneys’ fees in patent infringement cases that are deemed “exceptional.” 35 U.S.C. § 285. The Federal Circuit noted that while the threat of enhanced damages for willful infringement under 35 U.S.C. § 284 deters bad faith conduct on the part of the accused infringer, the threat of attorneys’ fees under Section 285 is “the only deterrent to the equally improper bringing of clearly unwarranted suits on invalid or unenforceable patents.” Mathis v. Spears, 857 F.2d 749, 754 (Fed. Cir. 1988). Section 285 provides: The court in exceptional cases may award reasonable attorneys’ fees to the prevailing party. 35 U.S.C. § 285."

scromar 14y ago
Additional fee shifting information from a recent federal circuit ruling here: http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/10/should-we-move-toward-more-fee-shifting-in-patent-cases.html http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/10/should-we-move-towar...