24 ms·

This doesn't include generational damage in sentiment: * Europe is in trouble because they can't get gas from Russia, Qatar stopped supplying gas * Japan is i

This doesn't include generational damage in sentiment: * Europe is in trouble because they can't get gas from Russia, Qatar stopped supplying gas * Japan is in trouble because Middle East supplies its 75% of oil, which is blocked now * Ukraine is in dilemma, because US giving every support to Israel, but not to Ukraine * Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain is asking questions, if US can't defend us and is moving all defensive missiles to protect Israel, why should we even be ally with them in the future, they're scared even more (except UAE) that people might overthrow those kings if things continue this way * Africa understood its better to work with China, than with US

flyinglizard 8mo ago
The disruption in gas supply will be very short. Weeks, at most. The gulf states will be very happy to see the Islamic Republic gone, they are living in its shadow for a long time now. Now, Ukraine and Israel need very different kinds of support, and things like US withholding intelligence from Ukraine have nothing to do with Israel.
- hedora 8mo ago
  Iran has been bombing production facilities across a bunch of US allies. It's unclear how quickly those will be rebuilt. Also, the US is probably bombing Iranian production, which means countries like China will be looking for additional sources.
- throwaw12 8mo ago
  I wonder why Israel should get any support, do you support killing children and bombing schools? Ukraine, I understand, because it was attacked, but Israel, who was oppressing people for so many years with prisons full with Palestinian kids and teenagers long before Oct 7th, I really don't understand. Except, for Epstein reasons (blackmail), other than that, there is no reason US should support Israel, in any way
  - dttze 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - flyinglizard 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - throwaw12 8mo ago
      > supporting Israel right to exist, for me, is the right thing 1. Does US fight to support only right things? 2. Is Palestinian right to exist is the right thing as well?
    - chmod775 8mo ago
      > values align with those of the US Some values those are. Yikes.
      - flyinglizard 8mo ago
        More chances than not that you live in a country that benefitted from the American propensity to do the right thing, even at a huge cost to itself. Yes we have a different and more selfish America now, but all said, America still protects the world order that allows this conversation to exist.
        throwaw12 8mo ago
        we don't need good boys, we need good laws where everyone is equal and punished equally for violating the common moral principles, e.g. for being a pedophile
        chmod775 8mo ago
        Everyone is the hero in their own story - that's why nationalism can be so dangerous - yet seeing how it plays out in individuals is endlessly fascinating to me.
        Hikikomori 8mo ago
- karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
  > The disruption in gas supply will be very short. Remember when W declared mission accomplished? That war was so short too. > The gulf states will be very happy to see the Islamic Republic gone Would they be happy to see a devastating civil war that gives rise to a successor of ISIS or Taleban? Will they happily accept tens of millions of refugees? Absolutely nothing good will come from this dumbfuck war. We all will pay the price of it one way or another.
jklinger410 8mo ago
I think citizens in those countries recognize that allowing a repressive regime to exist simply for cheap oil costs is not necessarily a good solution, either.
- kakacik 8mo ago
  Almost nobody thinks like that, what are we 5 year olds? Especially when most left leaning folks in western world has hard sympathies with hamas which are just left and right hand of the same regime (maybe not US left which is far from left elsewhere). Did US population en masse lost sleep during past decades till now and some future due to sweatshops full of kids making their jeans or iphones or Christmas toys for their kids in highly undemocratic regimes?
  - jklinger410 8mo ago
    > Especially when most left leaning folks in western world has hard sympathies with hamas I'm not going to take your comment seriously due to this wild opinion.
- throwaw12 8mo ago
  until your energy bills impact your pocket directly, while you were laid off from your manufacturing plant, because their cost structure is not competitive without cheap Russian oil/gas Look at the correlation here starting from 2022: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/recent-weakness-german-manufacturing-sector https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/recent-weakness-german-manufa...
  - roncesvalles 8mo ago
    This is akin to someone in 1861 saying US cotton plantations, and by extension the entire Southern economy, aren't viable without slavery, so let's allow slavery to run. Western liberal civilization has theta decay without occasional violent intervention. Imagine if we didn't go all-out against communism.
    - 8mo ago
roysting 8mo ago
That’s just the tip of the iceberg. People here seem to also have no perspective, since it is not in the wheelhouse of most tech people, on the fact that this is all a part of a 40 year strategy (as Netanyahu himself has openly stated) that some refer to as the “the Clean Break Strategy” or the “7 countries in 5 years memo”[1]. It clearly took longer than 5 years, but they definitely tried and even the likes of Hillary “we came, we saw, he died” Clinton was a party of that. People always squabble over blue team vs red team, never realizing that the whole game is just a ruse to provide a sense of democratic control to placate the public, and also give the apparatchiks if the regime a sense of autonomy, when in fact they’re just all pulling at the same continuity of agenda like beasts of burden, being whipped and rode by a very small group that hold their reins. [1] https://x.com/wikileaks/status/1819709215352438921?lang=en https://x.com/wikileaks/status/1819709215352438921?lang=en
- ajross 8mo ago
  Counterargument: squabbling about "blue team vs red team" is legitimate domestic politics about issues important to voters. You're just upset because what you think the "the whole game" is about is a rare area of general agreement[1] and you happen to be on the "other side". To wit: when you disagree with everyone, it looks like they're conspiring against you to control the masses, yada yada yada. They're not, you're just in a small minority (or an epistemological prison). [1] Hardly surprising, since international geopolitics is exactly where you'd expect their interests to align.
  - throwaw12 8mo ago
    red team was against endless wars in Middle East, red team specifically elected Trump to be America first and to stop all wars. if it was indeed about domestic policies, why promises were not held given to the "team"?
    - ajross 8mo ago
      Sorry, no. The republican party of the last three-quarter-century has been consistently and reliably pro-American-exceptionalism. That the republican power structures backed a candidate who claimed not to believe these things is interesting, but it happened because they believed, CORRECTLY, that he was lying about this.[1] There has been no significant realignment of US geopolitical positioning between the parties, nor should you expect there to have been. That you thought there was is, to be blunt, on you. You followed a charlatan and got burned. You should have known better after you got burned the first time. [1] Again, hardly surprising. He lies about everything.
underdeserver 8mo ago
> Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain is asking questions, if US can't defend us and is moving all defensive missiles to protect Israel, why should we even be ally with them Where are you getting this information? The UAE, for instance, is relying heavily on missile defense - and it's working out for them: https://gulfnews.com/uae/uae-intercepts-186-ballistic-missiles-and-812-drones-1.500462038 https://gulfnews.com/uae/uae-intercepts-186-ballistic-missil... It's all US technology, too: https://www.wired.me/story/inside-the-system-that-intercepted-missiles-over-the-uae-today https://www.wired.me/story/inside-the-system-that-intercepte...
lm28469 8mo ago
> Europe is in trouble because they can't get gas from Russia, Qatar stopped supplying gas 60% of it comes from the US, a lot from northern Africa too, not much comes from the middle east
- karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
  The price of oil has skyrocketed because of the dumbfuck war. Doesn't matter where the oil comes when it costs too much and causes massive inflation once again.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

flyinglizard 8mo ago

The disruption in gas supply will be very short. Weeks, at most. The gulf states will be very happy to see the Islamic Republic gone, they are living in its shadow for a long time now. Now, Ukraine and Israel need very different kinds of support, and things like US withholding intelligence from Ukraine have nothing to do with Israel.

hedora 8mo ago
Iran has been bombing production facilities across a bunch of US allies. It's unclear how quickly those will be rebuilt. Also, the US is probably bombing Iranian production, which means countries like China will be looking for additional sources.
throwaw12 8mo ago
I wonder why Israel should get any support, do you support killing children and bombing schools? Ukraine, I understand, because it was attacked, but Israel, who was oppressing people for so many years with prisons full with Palestinian kids and teenagers long before Oct 7th, I really don't understand. Except, for Epstein reasons (blackmail), other than that, there is no reason US should support Israel, in any way
- dttze 8mo ago
  [dead]
- flyinglizard 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwaw12 8mo ago
    > supporting Israel right to exist, for me, is the right thing 1. Does US fight to support only right things? 2. Is Palestinian right to exist is the right thing as well?
  - chmod775 8mo ago
    > values align with those of the US Some values those are. Yikes.
    - flyinglizard 8mo ago
      More chances than not that you live in a country that benefitted from the American propensity to do the right thing, even at a huge cost to itself. Yes we have a different and more selfish America now, but all said, America still protects the world order that allows this conversation to exist.
      - throwaw12 8mo ago
        we don't need good boys, we need good laws where everyone is equal and punished equally for violating the common moral principles, e.g. for being a pedophile
      - chmod775 8mo ago
        Everyone is the hero in their own story - that's why nationalism can be so dangerous - yet seeing how it plays out in individuals is endlessly fascinating to me.
      - Hikikomori 8mo ago
karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
> The disruption in gas supply will be very short. Remember when W declared mission accomplished? That war was so short too. > The gulf states will be very happy to see the Islamic Republic gone Would they be happy to see a devastating civil war that gives rise to a successor of ISIS or Taleban? Will they happily accept tens of millions of refugees? Absolutely nothing good will come from this dumbfuck war. We all will pay the price of it one way or another.

jklinger410 8mo ago

I think citizens in those countries recognize that allowing a repressive regime to exist simply for cheap oil costs is not necessarily a good solution, either.

kakacik 8mo ago
Almost nobody thinks like that, what are we 5 year olds? Especially when most left leaning folks in western world has hard sympathies with hamas which are just left and right hand of the same regime (maybe not US left which is far from left elsewhere). Did US population en masse lost sleep during past decades till now and some future due to sweatshops full of kids making their jeans or iphones or Christmas toys for their kids in highly undemocratic regimes?
- jklinger410 8mo ago
  > Especially when most left leaning folks in western world has hard sympathies with hamas I'm not going to take your comment seriously due to this wild opinion.
throwaw12 8mo ago
until your energy bills impact your pocket directly, while you were laid off from your manufacturing plant, because their cost structure is not competitive without cheap Russian oil/gas Look at the correlation here starting from 2022: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/recent-weakness-german-manufacturing-sector https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/recent-weakness-german-manufa...
- roncesvalles 8mo ago
  This is akin to someone in 1861 saying US cotton plantations, and by extension the entire Southern economy, aren't viable without slavery, so let's allow slavery to run. Western liberal civilization has theta decay without occasional violent intervention. Imagine if we didn't go all-out against communism.
  - 8mo ago

roysting 8mo ago

That’s just the tip of the iceberg. People here seem to also have no perspective, since it is not in the wheelhouse of most tech people, on the fact that this is all a part of a 40 year strategy (as Netanyahu himself has openly stated) that some refer to as the “the Clean Break Strategy” or the “7 countries in 5 years memo”[1]. It clearly took longer than 5 years, but they definitely tried and even the likes of Hillary “we came, we saw, he died” Clinton was a party of that. People always squabble over blue team vs red team, never realizing that the whole game is just a ruse to provide a sense of democratic control to placate the public, and also give the apparatchiks if the regime a sense of autonomy, when in fact they’re just all pulling at the same continuity of agenda like beasts of burden, being whipped and rode by a very small group that hold their reins. [1] https://x.com/wikileaks/status/1819709215352438921?lang=en https://x.com/wikileaks/status/1819709215352438921?lang=en

ajross 8mo ago
Counterargument: squabbling about "blue team vs red team" is legitimate domestic politics about issues important to voters. You're just upset because what you think the "the whole game" is about is a rare area of general agreement[1] and you happen to be on the "other side". To wit: when you disagree with everyone, it looks like they're conspiring against you to control the masses, yada yada yada. They're not, you're just in a small minority (or an epistemological prison). [1] Hardly surprising, since international geopolitics is exactly where you'd expect their interests to align.
- throwaw12 8mo ago
  red team was against endless wars in Middle East, red team specifically elected Trump to be America first and to stop all wars. if it was indeed about domestic policies, why promises were not held given to the "team"?
  - ajross 8mo ago
    Sorry, no. The republican party of the last three-quarter-century has been consistently and reliably pro-American-exceptionalism. That the republican power structures backed a candidate who claimed not to believe these things is interesting, but it happened because they believed, CORRECTLY, that he was lying about this.[1] There has been no significant realignment of US geopolitical positioning between the parties, nor should you expect there to have been. That you thought there was is, to be blunt, on you. You followed a charlatan and got burned. You should have known better after you got burned the first time. [1] Again, hardly surprising. He lies about everything.

underdeserver 8mo ago

> Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain is asking questions, if US can't defend us and is moving all defensive missiles to protect Israel, why should we even be ally with them Where are you getting this information? The UAE, for instance, is relying heavily on missile defense - and it's working out for them: https://gulfnews.com/uae/uae-intercepts-186-ballistic-missiles-and-812-drones-1.500462038 https://gulfnews.com/uae/uae-intercepts-186-ballistic-missil... It's all US technology, too: https://www.wired.me/story/inside-the-system-that-intercepted-missiles-over-the-uae-today https://www.wired.me/story/inside-the-system-that-intercepte...

lm28469 8mo ago

> Europe is in trouble because they can't get gas from Russia, Qatar stopped supplying gas 60% of it comes from the US, a lot from northern Africa too, not much comes from the middle east

karmakurtisaani 8mo ago
The price of oil has skyrocketed because of the dumbfuck war. Doesn't matter where the oil comes when it costs too much and causes massive inflation once again.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]