6 ms·

What kinds of middle policies would you like to see? Genuine question. This is a surprising opinion to me because I see the democrats as a center left largely

by c54 7mo ago

What kinds of middle policies would you like to see? Genuine question. This is a surprising opinion to me because I see the democrats as a center left largely moderate party. Agreed that the democrat candidates are appalling and generally show no conviction.

hedora 7mo ago
[flagged]
- mattydread 7mo ago
  This is complete nonsense. Moderate Democrats loudly and vigorously support all these things. Either you’re ignorant or you’re trolling from your actual far-right position.
  - hedora 7mo ago
    - Prosecution of criminals. Ah, yes, lots of ICE officers are locked up in state prisons, and Trump's empire is being dismantled out from under him. There are lots of state-level investigations involving the $4B in bribes he took this year. - Free market economics. If this were true, it would be possible to buy fire insurance in California, and Biden would have broken up dozens of monopolies. No spending bills would pass without provisions to do more of this because a coalition of the moderate democrats, libertarian republicans and far left democrats have more than enough votes to fillibuster and override vetos. - Freedom of speech / privacy / assembly California is rolling out mandatory age verification laws for operating systems this year. Remember: I'm talking about moderate democrats. These are the ones that are more likely to vote for Trump appointees than some Republicans. These are the ones that cast the deciding votes to make sure health care would be rolled back for millions of americans this past January. There are about 10 of them in the senate, which is enough to give the republican leadership the ability to pass whatever the heck they want, even with internal consent.
    - bigyabai 7mo ago
      Fillibustering random things because of Californian local law isn't going to fix things at the federal level. It wouldn't correct the (bipartisan!!!) manipulation of American monopolies, nor effectively combat the "think of the kids!" rhetoric that both parties love. Free market economics and freedom of speech have been worn down for decades. The bipartisan value of this private/public sector cooperation is indeed disgusting, but very deeply entrenched.
      - hedora 7mo ago
        I gave high-level and then concrete examples of state and federal problems created by moderate democrats working with conservatives to block what would be considered far-right policies anywhere else on earth.
mindslight 7mo ago
Talking about the "middle" is the wrong way of framing it. The problem is that the Democratic party sandbags any meaningful reforms, as they're still beholden to that same Epstein class when it comes time to campaign. For example the Democrats' grand attempt at healthcare reform included making it mandatory to patronize the "insurance" cartel! Is it possible for regulatory capture to be any more brazen? So people get frustrated with the hamfisted top-down plans tailored for those deeply wed to the system, tire of the hypocrisy, and then either stay home or vote for the alternative that doesn't even bother promising to try and constructively fix anything. It's a game of bad cop worse cop. We desperately need ranked pairs voting.
- tzs 7mo ago
  Several countries with universal healthcare use the "you have to buy private insurance" model, such as the Netherlands and Switzerland. There doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with that system. ACA has survived 12 years and enabled a lot of people to obtain health insurance that would not have been able to otherwise, with Republicans wanting to kill it that entire time but failing to do so. Do you think there was any other system Democrats could have passed instead that would have lasted that long?
  - diogenescynic 7mo ago
    >ACA has survived 12 years and enabled a lot of people to obtain health insurance that would not have been able to otherwise, with Republicans wanting to kill it that entire time but failing to do so. My insurance is more expensive than ever and quality of care lower quality than ever. >Do you think there was any other system Democrats could have passed instead that would have lasted that long? Medicare for all. Or lower the age gradually (cover kids and elderly first). They should have voted on it during the pandemic but Pelosi blocked it and AOC wouldn't do anything. They're all fakes.
    - tzs 7mo ago
      You'd probably have the rising cost issue no matter what had happened, because that problem affects pretty much all first world health care systems. The US is way more expensive than others, but the ratio of US costs to the costs of others has stayed roughly constant over at least the last 40-50 years.
diogenescynic 7mo ago
I'll get downvoted by both sides but this is what a winning political party policies look like for most of Americans not in NYC or in SF Bay Area, LA, SD, Seattle, Portland: -Medicare for all -Lower income taxes (federal and state) cut all the useless bloat like the $20B in homeless spending we can't even account for in California -Free state college tuition for local residents (we need to significantly decrease cost of college) -Universal background checks on guns -Ban abortion after 20 weeks -America first and only (stop being Israel's bitch) -Strong on crime laws (none of this bullshit we deal with in blue states where we catch and release violent offenders constantly and let people run over and kill entire families with ZERO consequences) -Having no stance on DEI, LGBTQ, or other cultural issues that serve only to divide and distract
- palmotea 7mo ago
  > I'll get downvoted by both sides but this is what a winning political party policies look like for most of Americans not in NYC or in SF Bay Area, LA, SD, Seattle, Portland: I don't agree on all the specifics, but I think that's the absolute right way to be thinking about this. If you actually want to make things better, you need to have empathy for people who aren't like you. Despite their self-image, I don't think liberals are actually any better at empathy than anyone else. > -Having no stance on DEI, LGBTQ, or other cultural issues that serve only to divide and distract This is a key point. The focus on those issues is probably the only reason the plutocrat/big business Republicans even have a chance.
  - tastyface 7mo ago
    "This is a key point. The focus on those issues is probably the only reason the plutocrat/big business Republicans even have a chance." The right spends *far* more money and airtime on these issues than democrats actually do: https://abcnews.com/US/trump-spends-millions-anti-trans-ads-despite-polls/story?id=115001816 https://abcnews.com/US/trump-spends-millions-anti-trans-ads-... In other words, it is largely a moral panic manufactured by the right. If democrats give in, the right will concoct a new one, ad infinitum, until democrats and republicans are indistinguishable.
AnimalMuppet 7mo ago
The Democratic Party may be center left and largely moderate. Democratic politicians are further left than that, especially the ones that seem to attract microphones. Now, the mainstream media plays the most outrageous statements because they attract the most eyeballs. And the Republicans play up the most outrageous Democratic statements (a process sometimes called "nut harvesting"). But the point is, what the average person hears is the most extreme statements made by Democrats, and that frames their view of the Democratic Party. You want to change that? Stop the more extreme ones from talking into microphones. If you can't do that (and you can't), then the next best is to have someone authoritative (say, the senior member of the House, or the chair of the DNC) officially and publicly repudiate the more extreme statements.
- diogenescynic 7mo ago
  The furthest left member of Congress, AOC, voted to give Israel more military aid and never pushed for a floor vote on Medicare for all. None of them are center left. They're all right wing.
- asacrowflies 7mo ago
  Do you have an example of one of these extreme left positions??

by c54 7mo ago

hedora 7mo ago

[flagged]

mattydread 7mo ago
This is complete nonsense. Moderate Democrats loudly and vigorously support all these things. Either you’re ignorant or you’re trolling from your actual far-right position.
- hedora 7mo ago
  - Prosecution of criminals. Ah, yes, lots of ICE officers are locked up in state prisons, and Trump's empire is being dismantled out from under him. There are lots of state-level investigations involving the $4B in bribes he took this year. - Free market economics. If this were true, it would be possible to buy fire insurance in California, and Biden would have broken up dozens of monopolies. No spending bills would pass without provisions to do more of this because a coalition of the moderate democrats, libertarian republicans and far left democrats have more than enough votes to fillibuster and override vetos. - Freedom of speech / privacy / assembly California is rolling out mandatory age verification laws for operating systems this year. Remember: I'm talking about moderate democrats. These are the ones that are more likely to vote for Trump appointees than some Republicans. These are the ones that cast the deciding votes to make sure health care would be rolled back for millions of americans this past January. There are about 10 of them in the senate, which is enough to give the republican leadership the ability to pass whatever the heck they want, even with internal consent.
  - bigyabai 7mo ago
    Fillibustering random things because of Californian local law isn't going to fix things at the federal level. It wouldn't correct the (bipartisan!!!) manipulation of American monopolies, nor effectively combat the "think of the kids!" rhetoric that both parties love. Free market economics and freedom of speech have been worn down for decades. The bipartisan value of this private/public sector cooperation is indeed disgusting, but very deeply entrenched.
    - hedora 7mo ago
      I gave high-level and then concrete examples of state and federal problems created by moderate democrats working with conservatives to block what would be considered far-right policies anywhere else on earth.

mindslight 7mo ago

Talking about the "middle" is the wrong way of framing it. The problem is that the Democratic party sandbags any meaningful reforms, as they're still beholden to that same Epstein class when it comes time to campaign. For example the Democrats' grand attempt at healthcare reform included making it mandatory to patronize the "insurance" cartel! Is it possible for regulatory capture to be any more brazen? So people get frustrated with the hamfisted top-down plans tailored for those deeply wed to the system, tire of the hypocrisy, and then either stay home or vote for the alternative that doesn't even bother promising to try and constructively fix anything. It's a game of bad cop worse cop. We desperately need ranked pairs voting.

tzs 7mo ago
Several countries with universal healthcare use the "you have to buy private insurance" model, such as the Netherlands and Switzerland. There doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with that system. ACA has survived 12 years and enabled a lot of people to obtain health insurance that would not have been able to otherwise, with Republicans wanting to kill it that entire time but failing to do so. Do you think there was any other system Democrats could have passed instead that would have lasted that long?
- diogenescynic 7mo ago
  >ACA has survived 12 years and enabled a lot of people to obtain health insurance that would not have been able to otherwise, with Republicans wanting to kill it that entire time but failing to do so. My insurance is more expensive than ever and quality of care lower quality than ever. >Do you think there was any other system Democrats could have passed instead that would have lasted that long? Medicare for all. Or lower the age gradually (cover kids and elderly first). They should have voted on it during the pandemic but Pelosi blocked it and AOC wouldn't do anything. They're all fakes.
  - tzs 7mo ago
    You'd probably have the rising cost issue no matter what had happened, because that problem affects pretty much all first world health care systems. The US is way more expensive than others, but the ratio of US costs to the costs of others has stayed roughly constant over at least the last 40-50 years.

diogenescynic 7mo ago

I'll get downvoted by both sides but this is what a winning political party policies look like for most of Americans not in NYC or in SF Bay Area, LA, SD, Seattle, Portland: -Medicare for all -Lower income taxes (federal and state) cut all the useless bloat like the $20B in homeless spending we can't even account for in California -Free state college tuition for local residents (we need to significantly decrease cost of college) -Universal background checks on guns -Ban abortion after 20 weeks -America first and only (stop being Israel's bitch) -Strong on crime laws (none of this bullshit we deal with in blue states where we catch and release violent offenders constantly and let people run over and kill entire families with ZERO consequences) -Having no stance on DEI, LGBTQ, or other cultural issues that serve only to divide and distract

palmotea 7mo ago
> I'll get downvoted by both sides but this is what a winning political party policies look like for most of Americans not in NYC or in SF Bay Area, LA, SD, Seattle, Portland: I don't agree on all the specifics, but I think that's the absolute right way to be thinking about this. If you actually want to make things better, you need to have empathy for people who aren't like you. Despite their self-image, I don't think liberals are actually any better at empathy than anyone else. > -Having no stance on DEI, LGBTQ, or other cultural issues that serve only to divide and distract This is a key point. The focus on those issues is probably the only reason the plutocrat/big business Republicans even have a chance.
- tastyface 7mo ago
  "This is a key point. The focus on those issues is probably the only reason the plutocrat/big business Republicans even have a chance." The right spends *far* more money and airtime on these issues than democrats actually do: https://abcnews.com/US/trump-spends-millions-anti-trans-ads-despite-polls/story?id=115001816 https://abcnews.com/US/trump-spends-millions-anti-trans-ads-... In other words, it is largely a moral panic manufactured by the right. If democrats give in, the right will concoct a new one, ad infinitum, until democrats and republicans are indistinguishable.

AnimalMuppet 7mo ago

The Democratic Party may be center left and largely moderate. Democratic politicians are further left than that, especially the ones that seem to attract microphones. Now, the mainstream media plays the most outrageous statements because they attract the most eyeballs. And the Republicans play up the most outrageous Democratic statements (a process sometimes called "nut harvesting"). But the point is, what the average person hears is the most extreme statements made by Democrats, and that frames their view of the Democratic Party. You want to change that? Stop the more extreme ones from talking into microphones. If you can't do that (and you can't), then the next best is to have someone authoritative (say, the senior member of the House, or the chair of the DNC) officially and publicly repudiate the more extreme statements.

diogenescynic 7mo ago
The furthest left member of Congress, AOC, voted to give Israel more military aid and never pushed for a floor vote on Medicare for all. None of them are center left. They're all right wing.
asacrowflies 7mo ago
Do you have an example of one of these extreme left positions??