4 ms·

> they keep circling around it, trying not to make iPads accidentally powerful enough for someone to skip buying a MacBook. Which is really silly, because if s

by bigstrat2003 8mo ago

> they keep circling around it, trying not to make iPads accidentally powerful enough for someone to skip buying a MacBook. Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done. Apple has nothing to fear here.

andy_ppp 8mo ago
Yeah they should even just let you install macOS if you want, they’d probably sell a lot of overpriced storage at a minimum and people still wouldn’t use them for real work…
moolcool 8mo ago
And especially more silly, since they'll soon launch a cheap A-series chipped MacBook. Why can I have multiple users on a $700 MacBook, but not a $1500 iPad Pro?
b33j0r 8mo ago
My dad and my brother use ipad pros for their healthcare business and rarely use laptops. For them, the year of real work happened several years ago. My brother even has a mouse for it somehow.
- lostapathy 8mo ago
  What's the "somehow" about the mouse? They've supported that for a while now.
  - badc0ffee 8mo ago
    I believe it, but it's not something I've ever see in the wild. I have seen people using a trackpad in a keyboard folio, though.
  - verst 8mo ago
    Exactly - any USB mouse via the USB-C connector (or lightning camera adapter before that) works. External displays also work via USB-C.
coldtea 8mo ago
>Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done.* Nonsens. The iPad is basically a 11 to 13 (Pro) monitor+computer with an amazing touch screen. Adding the official keyboard folio, or any bluetooth keyboard/mourse is trivial, and it makes for an excellent on-the-go machine. Not different to the 12-inch MacBook (circa 2015) and the older fan favorite 12-inch PowerBook G4 (circa 2003), and I know several devs who swore by them. Linus used and loved one of the latter (with PPC Linux on in his case). The only issue is the lack of OS level support for some stuff, not the form factor. Admins, devs working mostly on the Cloud, photographers, and writers already use it for "getting work done", I've seen execs too.
- eldaisfish 8mo ago
  the form factor is a problem. Have you ACTUALLY tried using an ipad as a laptop for more than a few minutes? It is top-heavy and falls over all the time. Even if you solve that problem, you now have multiple devices that you must keep charged and with you at all time. At that point, an actual laptop is simpler.
  - Archit3ch 8mo ago
    I've seen people use their (non-Apple) tablet in the kitchen for recipes. Can't imagine taking my laptop to the kitchen.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - makeitdouble 8mo ago
    That form factor exists on the windows side for about a decade now, so yes people do actually use it day to day for their work. It's easy to forget that many laptops are used 99% plugged to a hub and an external monitor. I have a keyboard and mouse I like a lot, and having a tablet floating on an arm next to my other screen instead of half open clam with a useless keyboard pointing at me is incredibly freeing. Even on the go, bringing a bluetooth (trackpoint II）keyboard is just better overall IMHO. It's up to people's taste, but tablet form factors are not some unsolved mistery. Commercial success would of course be another discussion.
p1necone 8mo ago
I haven't seen one yet, but theoretically a case that secures the tablet in a holder that has a proper hinge (instead of the typical kickstand style) attached would work. You'd have to weight the keyboard a bit but there's no reason it wouldn't work, and effectively give you the exact same form factor as a laptop.
- mrkpdl 8mo ago
  That sounds like the existing Magic Keyboard for the current iPad airs and pros, can you explain the difference a bit more?
  - post-it 8mo ago
    I think they just don't know about the Magic Keyboard.
    - p1necone 8mo ago
      You would be correct. If the ipad let you use full osx it would be pretty attractive to me and I probably would have spent the 5 minutes needed to discover the magic keyboard, but unfortunately the idea of buying a computing device with such insanely powerful hardware but being locked into standard tablet UX really doesn't excite me.
  - GuinansEyebrows 8mo ago
    i bought a magic keyboard for my 11" ipad pro and ultimately didn't use it much. it does have a traditional laptop-style hinge, but the way the ipad mounts to the case brings it forward over the keyboard more than with a regular laptop. the hinge also doesn't allow for a very wide range of motion (even compared to macbooks). finally, the center of gravity is really high compared to a laptop which makes it awkward to use as a literal laptop or when lying down. it definitely looks cool (i could see the design having been inspired by the OG Mac and 20th Anniversary Mac) but works best on a stable surface; plus if you want to use it purely as a tablet, you're left with a big clunky keyboard case to deal with. the idea of a laptop/tablet combo is cool but i haven't seen the concept executed very successfully from either starting point.
tomaskafka 8mo ago
I would absolutely carry an iPad Pro with a dev environment with me on the holidays for emergencies instead of macbook. And I could add a cheap keyboard, mouse, and connect it to TV to get good enough work environment. Or connect it to dock at home, just like I do with the macbook.
- windowsrookie 8mo ago
  But why? A 13" MacBook Air is smaller and lighter than carrying a tablet + keyboard + mouse. And iOS is always going to be more difficult to do real work on vs MacOS.
  - theshackleford 8mo ago
    > But why? A 13" MacBook Air is smaller and lighter than carrying a tablet + keyboard + mouse. Because portability isn’t just about weight? There are plenty of situations where a tablet for many will be more usable than a laptop. Cramped spaces, on a plane, laying back on a couch, standing, quick pull-outs in public, or maybe when they want something that feels more personal rather than “I’m working now.” That last one is a big one. A LOT of IT people I know have moved to tablets for their personal machines because they want to be as far away as possible from anything their brain can connect to work. Given OP specifically said “for emergencies” and “good enough,” that suggests to me they are looking for flexibility, not maximum capability, largely an area in which the modern tablet for a not insignificant number of people, excels. > And iOS is always going to be more difficult to do real work on vs MacOS. If your workflow depends on native macOS software, then sure, maybe. But for people whose work is browser based, cloud based, or remote (SSH, RDP, SaaS tools), iOS is perfectly viable. I know people running entire businesses from iPads and its not just viable, they prefer it, they don't even own computing devices outside of iOS/Android. Personally, I don’t use an iPad for work, but realistically, I could. SSH exists, and most of what I use lives in a browser anyway.
- al_borland 8mo ago
  Any time I think about doing this, I remind myself of the news story[0] about the iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard being heavier than a MacBook Air. I believe it was thicker as well. I’m not sure if it’s still the case, as they trimmed down the iPad Pro quite a bit, but I don’t think the iPad is that much of a boon for travel. For the size and weight, it seems moot. I’d rather have the keyboard and trackpad of a proper MacBook, full macOS, and a system that won’t fall apart. The last time I took an iPad on a plane, the person in front of me reclined, hit the iPad, and it flew off the magnetic keyboard and I had to fish around for it on the floor. Thankfully it didn’t break. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21227741/apple-ipad-pro-magic-keyboard-weight https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21227741/apple-ipad-pro-m...
raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
You know you can use a standard Bluetooth and keyboard and mouse with an iPad? My wife uses her 13 inch iPad for everything - mostly Zoom, Office, everything web based, and “consumption”. I have an M2 MacBook Air that I bought in 2023 for a side project I was doing when I was in between jobs. I haven’t opened it since. I do the little bit of stuff I do outside of work on my iPad Air 3.
- windowsrookie 8mo ago
  I've just never understood this. A 13" MacBook Air would accomplish everything better for me. A laptop has a stand for the screen built into it and it's much more stable on any surface vs a tablet case + stand. Sure, it's easier to use a tablet while standing, but that's what I use my phone for, and it's always with me in my pocket. If I'm going to carry a 13" tablet around it might as well be a laptop which is thinner and lighter than a tablet + keyboard case. Then there is always something annoying that I can't do on an iPad so I have to grab a real computer to do it. I tried using iPads many times over the years but ended up selling them because a laptop + smartphone does everything I need better.
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    So you don’t understand why someone who doesn’t need a computer most of the time might rather have an iPad? Besides, you can’t get a MacBook with cellular and you can’t download movies to use offline with most streaming services on a Mac since most of them don’t have Mac apps. We travel a lot. Even I take my laptop + iPad + external USB powered/USB video display that works with one USB cable. Most of the time I just use my external display. But I can use my iPad as a third display. I really use my personal laptop for nothing. I left it at home while we are spending a month and a half in another country. When I get off work, I don’t think about using my computer for anything - I don’t do side projects and haven’t for 30 years.
  - windowsrookie 8mo ago
    You stated "You know you can use a standard Bluetooth and keyboard and mouse with an iPad? My wife uses her 13 inch iPad for everything - mostly Zoom, Office, everything web based" In my opinion all of that works better on a laptop. I don't use any streaming services so that functionality is not important for me, but I do recognize that may be important for some. For me carrying a tablet + laptop while traveling would just be wasted space when I can and prefer to do everything on the laptop anyways.
jonasdegendt 8mo ago
Didn’t Apple themselves at some point release an ad with a teenager using an iPad going “what’s a computer”? They’re pretty aware they’d be cannibalizing their lower-end laptop lineup.
- al_borland 8mo ago
  That’s their goal (or it used to be). When the iPad was first released the idea was that the iPad would be all 80% of people needed. The metaphor of cars vs trucks was used. For heavy duty work, trucks (Macs) will always be around. For everyone else, a car (iPad) will do just fine. When the iPad nano was released they killed off the best selling iPad, the mini. Their statement on this was that they want to be the one to cannibalize their own products. If they don’t do it someone else will. Look at the iPhone, it made the iPod obsolete. Had they missed the boat on smartphones like Microsoft, they’d be screwed, as the iPod was half the business. Instead, they make way more on iPhones than they ever did on iPods. iPhone replaced the iPod sales and then some.
  - theshackleford 8mo ago
    > When the iPad nano was released they killed off the best selling iPad, the mini. Did you mean the iPod? :)
    - al_borland 8mo ago
      Yes. I want to blame auto-correct, but “o” and “a” are so far apart that I’m just not sure. Of course I’ve had modern iOS autocorrect do much worse, because it does what it thinks instead of what I type.
iwontberude 8mo ago
I can tell you aren’t optimizing for illustration or 3D drafting. It’s absolutely amazing.
phatskat 8mo ago
Cue my old manager SSH’ing into work machines while on his boat from his iPad - it does happen. Not saying that working on it is the norm by any means, but it’s about on par with “my android phone is logged in to my tmux session on the dev server and I’m cowboy coding from the bar”
theshackleford 8mo ago
> Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done. I know plenty of people who in fact have moved to an iPad as a primary computing device, including for work/business. Including a handful of engineering leaders using remote-code solutions.

andy_ppp 8mo ago

Yeah they should even just let you install macOS if you want, they’d probably sell a lot of overpriced storage at a minimum and people still wouldn’t use them for real work…

moolcool 8mo ago

And especially more silly, since they'll soon launch a cheap A-series chipped MacBook. Why can I have multiple users on a $700 MacBook, but not a $1500 iPad Pro?

b33j0r 8mo ago

My dad and my brother use ipad pros for their healthcare business and rarely use laptops. For them, the year of real work happened several years ago. My brother even has a mouse for it somehow.

lostapathy 8mo ago
What's the "somehow" about the mouse? They've supported that for a while now.
- badc0ffee 8mo ago
  I believe it, but it's not something I've ever see in the wild. I have seen people using a trackpad in a keyboard folio, though.
- verst 8mo ago
  Exactly - any USB mouse via the USB-C connector (or lightning camera adapter before that) works. External displays also work via USB-C.

coldtea 8mo ago

>Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done.* Nonsens. The iPad is basically a 11 to 13 (Pro) monitor+computer with an amazing touch screen. Adding the official keyboard folio, or any bluetooth keyboard/mourse is trivial, and it makes for an excellent on-the-go machine. Not different to the 12-inch MacBook (circa 2015) and the older fan favorite 12-inch PowerBook G4 (circa 2003), and I know several devs who swore by them. Linus used and loved one of the latter (with PPC Linux on in his case). The only issue is the lack of OS level support for some stuff, not the form factor. Admins, devs working mostly on the Cloud, photographers, and writers already use it for "getting work done", I've seen execs too.

eldaisfish 8mo ago
the form factor is a problem. Have you ACTUALLY tried using an ipad as a laptop for more than a few minutes? It is top-heavy and falls over all the time. Even if you solve that problem, you now have multiple devices that you must keep charged and with you at all time. At that point, an actual laptop is simpler.
- Archit3ch 8mo ago
  I've seen people use their (non-Apple) tablet in the kitchen for recipes. Can't imagine taking my laptop to the kitchen.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- makeitdouble 8mo ago
  That form factor exists on the windows side for about a decade now, so yes people do actually use it day to day for their work. It's easy to forget that many laptops are used 99% plugged to a hub and an external monitor. I have a keyboard and mouse I like a lot, and having a tablet floating on an arm next to my other screen instead of half open clam with a useless keyboard pointing at me is incredibly freeing. Even on the go, bringing a bluetooth (trackpoint II）keyboard is just better overall IMHO. It's up to people's taste, but tablet form factors are not some unsolved mistery. Commercial success would of course be another discussion.

p1necone 8mo ago

I haven't seen one yet, but theoretically a case that secures the tablet in a holder that has a proper hinge (instead of the typical kickstand style) attached would work. You'd have to weight the keyboard a bit but there's no reason it wouldn't work, and effectively give you the exact same form factor as a laptop.

mrkpdl 8mo ago
That sounds like the existing Magic Keyboard for the current iPad airs and pros, can you explain the difference a bit more?
- post-it 8mo ago
  I think they just don't know about the Magic Keyboard.
  - p1necone 8mo ago
    You would be correct. If the ipad let you use full osx it would be pretty attractive to me and I probably would have spent the 5 minutes needed to discover the magic keyboard, but unfortunately the idea of buying a computing device with such insanely powerful hardware but being locked into standard tablet UX really doesn't excite me.
- GuinansEyebrows 8mo ago
  i bought a magic keyboard for my 11" ipad pro and ultimately didn't use it much. it does have a traditional laptop-style hinge, but the way the ipad mounts to the case brings it forward over the keyboard more than with a regular laptop. the hinge also doesn't allow for a very wide range of motion (even compared to macbooks). finally, the center of gravity is really high compared to a laptop which makes it awkward to use as a literal laptop or when lying down. it definitely looks cool (i could see the design having been inspired by the OG Mac and 20th Anniversary Mac) but works best on a stable surface; plus if you want to use it purely as a tablet, you're left with a big clunky keyboard case to deal with. the idea of a laptop/tablet combo is cool but i haven't seen the concept executed very successfully from either starting point.

tomaskafka 8mo ago

I would absolutely carry an iPad Pro with a dev environment with me on the holidays for emergencies instead of macbook. And I could add a cheap keyboard, mouse, and connect it to TV to get good enough work environment. Or connect it to dock at home, just like I do with the macbook.

windowsrookie 8mo ago
But why? A 13" MacBook Air is smaller and lighter than carrying a tablet + keyboard + mouse. And iOS is always going to be more difficult to do real work on vs MacOS.
- theshackleford 8mo ago
  > But why? A 13" MacBook Air is smaller and lighter than carrying a tablet + keyboard + mouse. Because portability isn’t just about weight? There are plenty of situations where a tablet for many will be more usable than a laptop. Cramped spaces, on a plane, laying back on a couch, standing, quick pull-outs in public, or maybe when they want something that feels more personal rather than “I’m working now.” That last one is a big one. A LOT of IT people I know have moved to tablets for their personal machines because they want to be as far away as possible from anything their brain can connect to work. Given OP specifically said “for emergencies” and “good enough,” that suggests to me they are looking for flexibility, not maximum capability, largely an area in which the modern tablet for a not insignificant number of people, excels. > And iOS is always going to be more difficult to do real work on vs MacOS. If your workflow depends on native macOS software, then sure, maybe. But for people whose work is browser based, cloud based, or remote (SSH, RDP, SaaS tools), iOS is perfectly viable. I know people running entire businesses from iPads and its not just viable, they prefer it, they don't even own computing devices outside of iOS/Android. Personally, I don’t use an iPad for work, but realistically, I could. SSH exists, and most of what I use lives in a browser anyway.
al_borland 8mo ago
Any time I think about doing this, I remind myself of the news story[0] about the iPad Pro + Magic Keyboard being heavier than a MacBook Air. I believe it was thicker as well. I’m not sure if it’s still the case, as they trimmed down the iPad Pro quite a bit, but I don’t think the iPad is that much of a boon for travel. For the size and weight, it seems moot. I’d rather have the keyboard and trackpad of a proper MacBook, full macOS, and a system that won’t fall apart. The last time I took an iPad on a plane, the person in front of me reclined, hit the iPad, and it flew off the magnetic keyboard and I had to fish around for it on the floor. Thankfully it didn’t break. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21227741/apple-ipad-pro-magic-keyboard-weight https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21227741/apple-ipad-pro-m...

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago

You know you can use a standard Bluetooth and keyboard and mouse with an iPad? My wife uses her 13 inch iPad for everything - mostly Zoom, Office, everything web based, and “consumption”. I have an M2 MacBook Air that I bought in 2023 for a side project I was doing when I was in between jobs. I haven’t opened it since. I do the little bit of stuff I do outside of work on my iPad Air 3.

windowsrookie 8mo ago
I've just never understood this. A 13" MacBook Air would accomplish everything better for me. A laptop has a stand for the screen built into it and it's much more stable on any surface vs a tablet case + stand. Sure, it's easier to use a tablet while standing, but that's what I use my phone for, and it's always with me in my pocket. If I'm going to carry a 13" tablet around it might as well be a laptop which is thinner and lighter than a tablet + keyboard case. Then there is always something annoying that I can't do on an iPad so I have to grab a real computer to do it. I tried using iPads many times over the years but ended up selling them because a laptop + smartphone does everything I need better.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  So you don’t understand why someone who doesn’t need a computer most of the time might rather have an iPad? Besides, you can’t get a MacBook with cellular and you can’t download movies to use offline with most streaming services on a Mac since most of them don’t have Mac apps. We travel a lot. Even I take my laptop + iPad + external USB powered/USB video display that works with one USB cable. Most of the time I just use my external display. But I can use my iPad as a third display. I really use my personal laptop for nothing. I left it at home while we are spending a month and a half in another country. When I get off work, I don’t think about using my computer for anything - I don’t do side projects and haven’t for 30 years.
- windowsrookie 8mo ago
  You stated "You know you can use a standard Bluetooth and keyboard and mouse with an iPad? My wife uses her 13 inch iPad for everything - mostly Zoom, Office, everything web based" In my opinion all of that works better on a laptop. I don't use any streaming services so that functionality is not important for me, but I do recognize that may be important for some. For me carrying a tablet + laptop while traveling would just be wasted space when I can and prefer to do everything on the laptop anyways.

jonasdegendt 8mo ago

Didn’t Apple themselves at some point release an ad with a teenager using an iPad going “what’s a computer”? They’re pretty aware they’d be cannibalizing their lower-end laptop lineup.

al_borland 8mo ago
That’s their goal (or it used to be). When the iPad was first released the idea was that the iPad would be all 80% of people needed. The metaphor of cars vs trucks was used. For heavy duty work, trucks (Macs) will always be around. For everyone else, a car (iPad) will do just fine. When the iPad nano was released they killed off the best selling iPad, the mini. Their statement on this was that they want to be the one to cannibalize their own products. If they don’t do it someone else will. Look at the iPhone, it made the iPod obsolete. Had they missed the boat on smartphones like Microsoft, they’d be screwed, as the iPod was half the business. Instead, they make way more on iPhones than they ever did on iPods. iPhone replaced the iPod sales and then some.
- theshackleford 8mo ago
  > When the iPad nano was released they killed off the best selling iPad, the mini. Did you mean the iPod? :)
  - al_borland 8mo ago
    Yes. I want to blame auto-correct, but “o” and “a” are so far apart that I’m just not sure. Of course I’ve had modern iOS autocorrect do much worse, because it does what it thinks instead of what I type.

iwontberude 8mo ago

I can tell you aren’t optimizing for illustration or 3D drafting. It’s absolutely amazing.

phatskat 8mo ago

Cue my old manager SSH’ing into work machines while on his boat from his iPad - it does happen. Not saying that working on it is the norm by any means, but it’s about on par with “my android phone is logged in to my tmux session on the dev server and I’m cowboy coding from the bar”

theshackleford 8mo ago

> Which is really silly, because if someone needs to do actual work they are not going to do it on an iPad no matter how capable it is. The form factor simply does not work for getting work done. I know plenty of people who in fact have moved to an iPad as a primary computing device, including for work/business. Including a handful of engineering leaders using remote-code solutions.