4 ms·

C++ is trying to make C easier to use for 40 years, and it's still not there. So I wouldn't call that easier.

by coliveira 7mo ago

astrange 7mo ago
C++ is trying to make something EASIER to use?
anthk 7mo ago
C++ if any made C user friendly.
jcelerier 7mo ago
how would you write something like #include <print> #include <map> #include <string> int main(int argc, char** argv) { using namespace std::literals; std::string foo = "foo:"; foo += argv[0]; std::map<std::string, int> m{ {foo, 123} , {"count: "s + std::to_string(argc), 456} }; std::println("{}", m); } in C
- hackyhacky 7mo ago
  Sure, there are nice parts of C++. And there are also brain-dead parts that add needless complexity such as: * rvalue references * the difference between auto, decltype, typeof * unreadable template monstrosities * various different flavors of "smart" pointer * the continued existence of footguns relating to UB, dangling pointers, unexpected temporary lifetimes, etc * total absence of a build system or package management * legacy APIs that still take raw pointers * concepts, a half-assed attempt at generic constraints
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    No worries, you get some of those in C23, and C2y. Where is C's build system and package management? Yeah, because using _Generic alongside typeof and preprocessor macros isn't half-assed attempt at generics.
    - hackyhacky 7mo ago
      You misunderstood. Perpetuating C's weaknesses, and then adding additional complexity, is not a defense.
      - pjmlp 7mo ago
        It kind of is, when the goal was to be TypeScript for C, before this was even a concept. Now ideally we would all be using Modula-2, Ada, Delphi, VB, C#,.... and co, but given that even C compilers are nowadays written in C++, we make do with what we have, while avoiding C flaws as much as possible.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Even better example, import std; int main(int argc, char** argv) { using namespace std::literals; auto foo = "foo:"s; foo += argv[0]; std::map<std::string, int> m{ {foo, 123} , {"count: "s + std::to_string(argc), 456} }; std::println("{}", m); }
pjmlp 7mo ago
It has been there for me since 1993, in every single scenario as alternative to C, when the choice boils down to either of them. Since 1993, I only have used C when required to do for various reasons out of my control, or catching up with WG14 standards.

C++ is trying to make C easier to use for 40 years, and it's still not there. So I wouldn't call that easier.

astrange 7mo ago

C++ is trying to make something EASIER to use?

anthk 7mo ago

C++ if any made C user friendly.

jcelerier 7mo ago

how would you write something like #include <print> #include <map> #include <string> int main(int argc, char** argv) { using namespace std::literals; std::string foo = "foo:"; foo += argv[0]; std::map<std::string, int> m{ {foo, 123} , {"count: "s + std::to_string(argc), 456} }; std::println("{}", m); } in C

hackyhacky 7mo ago
Sure, there are nice parts of C++. And there are also brain-dead parts that add needless complexity such as: * rvalue references * the difference between auto, decltype, typeof * unreadable template monstrosities * various different flavors of "smart" pointer * the continued existence of footguns relating to UB, dangling pointers, unexpected temporary lifetimes, etc * total absence of a build system or package management * legacy APIs that still take raw pointers * concepts, a half-assed attempt at generic constraints
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  No worries, you get some of those in C23, and C2y. Where is C's build system and package management? Yeah, because using _Generic alongside typeof and preprocessor macros isn't half-assed attempt at generics.
  - hackyhacky 7mo ago
    You misunderstood. Perpetuating C's weaknesses, and then adding additional complexity, is not a defense.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      It kind of is, when the goal was to be TypeScript for C, before this was even a concept. Now ideally we would all be using Modula-2, Ada, Delphi, VB, C#,.... and co, but given that even C compilers are nowadays written in C++, we make do with what we have, while avoiding C flaws as much as possible.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
pjmlp 7mo ago
Even better example, import std; int main(int argc, char** argv) { using namespace std::literals; auto foo = "foo:"s; foo += argv[0]; std::map<std::string, int> m{ {foo, 123} , {"count: "s + std::to_string(argc), 456} }; std::println("{}", m); }

pjmlp 7mo ago

It has been there for me since 1993, in every single scenario as alternative to C, when the choice boils down to either of them. Since 1993, I only have used C when required to do for various reasons out of my control, or catching up with WG14 standards.