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How much do you automate things in your life using Zapier and Automator? I know about those tools, and I'm always in the mood for automating thing... and yet I

by simonw 8mo ago

How much do you automate things in your life using Zapier and Automator? I know about those tools, and I'm always in the mood for automating thing... and yet I don't use them. I'm not yet running a Claw because of the prompt injection / lethal trifecta risks, but I absolutely understand the appeal. Reducing friction to automating stuff from "figure out Automator again" to "message your bot" is a material difference.

WD-42 8mo ago
How much do you automate anything in your life at all? Seems like most daily drudgery comes from physical tasks. Feed the dog. Take out the trash. Personally I can’t think of anything digital that could be automated that isn’t already. I wouldn’t be surprised if this the case for most people, with the exception of marketers and spammers which we are seeing a ton of adoption from with these tools.
- BeetleB 8mo ago
  I don't automate much because it's a pain. I have a desktop at home. When I'm at work, I often think of TODOs for home. I write them on a post it note, and then at home have to remember to add it to my TODO (no, I'm not going to manage TODOs on my phone - whole other conversation). I'll soon set up my Claw to be able to add TODOs (just add, not modify/delete). Then at work, I'll simply record a voice message to it telling it my TODO. Same goes for movies I want to watch, books I want to read, reminders, etc. I'm particular about the weather information I want (often want cloud cover percentage and precipitation probability for a set of hours). I couldn't find a good app on my phone that gives me this information. It was always a trip to a web site, modify some options, and hit Submit. Now I just ask my Claw and he has a skill for precisely my needs. Here's an analogy: I carry a Leatherman multitool wherever I go. People ask me why. They can't comprehend needing it often to make it worth the hassle. But now that I have it on me, I use the knife very often - several times a week. And I almost never reach for a screwdriver. But until you've had it on you for a while, you can't comprehend the utility. Back in 2005, lots of people asked "Why would I want a camera on my phone?"
  - theshackleford 8mo ago
    > no, I'm not going to manage TODOs on my phone - whole other conversation I will. Far simpler, far more secure and far less wasteful than inserting some additional and unrequired LLM loop + hardware/virtualisation layer on top to do something I've already been able to do for years. > But until you've had it on you for a while, you can't comprehend the utility. You've not yet described anything that literally 99% of the population can not already do with the existing hardware and software in their pocket.
    - BeetleB 8mo ago
      > Far simpler And far less capable. I have a whole system for managing TODOs, notes, etc, and I've not found an app that fits my needs (especially given that the system evolves over time). But I agree - if you have a flow that works great for you with just a phone, then I wouldn't recommend OpenClaw for that use case. > You've not yet described anything that literally 99% of the population can not already do with the existing hardware and software in their pocket. And in the early days, literally everyone I knew who owned an iPhone also owned a digital camera and a laptop. Why pay some crazy amount for a fancy phone?
      - theshackleford 8mo ago
        Well, i'm happy for you from the respect that as someone with ADHD, getting a working notes and TODO system for me was life changing, and was something that in fact took me years, and I still tend to occasionally uproot my system, so I can understand that getting to somewhere it works for you can be of tremendous value alone. > I have a whole system for managing TODOs, notes, etc So do I and it can already accept input via text or voice from my phone and so I’m just not seeing the benefit of inserting an additional LLM orchestration layer just to route tasks into it. > And far less capable. My current setup can already capture voice and text, and can route it automatically into Logseq, Trello, or even org-mode. These all can be viewed from the same (or other) devices. Honestly, I would have to think it was of more usage in retrieval than submission if I was to ever go that route. Like instead of reviewing my todos/schedule manually. > And in the early days, literally everyone I knew who owned an iPhone also owned a digital camera and a laptop. Why pay some crazy amount for a fancy phone? A Phone enabled entirely new behaviors that were not possible from my laptop or camera at the time. Persistent connectivity, real-time location services and on device image capture, edit and sharing just to name an incredibly small few. It created use cases that weren’t practical or even possible previously. I’m open to being convinced, but I haven’t yet seen an example where OpenClaw enables something meaningfully new rather than repackaging something I can already do right now. Perhaps i'd be more open to it if it not literally everything I could think of using it for did not lead to atrocious security implmentations.
andrew_k 8mo ago
Yeah, automation sounds good in theory, but you need to set it up, then it fails, and you need to fix the edge cases, maintain it. Even with OpenClaw, it still fails my daily briefing from time to time, and I keep debugging it, which isn't how I want to spend my time. At least with a bot I can keep asking it to "fix it"
hamelcubsfan 8mo ago
Quick terminology question… when you deploy one of these in OpenClaw, is the official term “agent”? I’ve seen the project name, but I’ve never been quite sure what the canonical noun is for a running instance. Are they actually called “claws”, or is that just me over-literalizing the branding? Very curious
- theshrike79 8mo ago
  Agents usually refer to "coding agents" but they need a human in the loop. What makes Claws Claws is that they run automatically without human intervention, BUT they're built around an Agent =) It's like if you could tell Claude Code that "at 8am tomorrow morning check the weather at my current location and send me a Telegram message". It doesn't know how to wait until 8am, it'll just do it. Or it'll create some massive hack to do it. A Claw is built for things like that and has a "memory" of stuff it needs to do in the future and the ability check it periodically.
  - hamelcubsfan 8mo ago
    Thanks for this! I completely get how these "claws" work and have a few... they're super useful for specific things. I’m simply curious about the accurate or, more importantly, adopted terminology, as I've dug rather deep and have yet to find anything concrete. "Claw" it is...
- simonw 8mo ago
  The definition of "agent" with respect to AI has been hotly debated since at least the 1990s: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Oct/12/michael-wooldridge/ https://simonwillison.net/2024/Oct/12/michael-wooldridge/ So there is no "correct" definition even to this day - and that vagueness makes the term difficult to have useful conversations around. I've settled on "LLM making tool calls in a loop to achieve a goal", which I think is broad enough to cover what many people are talking about these days while being narrow enough to be useful. On that basis Claude Code and OpenClaw are both examples of agents - they run tools and can loop until they've achieved the goal set for them by their user.
SyneRyder 8mo ago
Have you experimented at least with running Claude (or whatever) as a cron-job? I'm seeing a lot of things emerge from just that pattern alone. I'd recommend giving Claude a way to communicate with you if it has issues to raise though, even if it knows you're asleep. I'm not running OpenClaw either, but I'm getting a ton of value just from my homebrew deterministic "run while loop, wake up Claude if trigger event occurs".

by simonw 8mo ago

WD-42 8mo ago

How much do you automate anything in your life at all? Seems like most daily drudgery comes from physical tasks. Feed the dog. Take out the trash. Personally I can’t think of anything digital that could be automated that isn’t already. I wouldn’t be surprised if this the case for most people, with the exception of marketers and spammers which we are seeing a ton of adoption from with these tools.

BeetleB 8mo ago
I don't automate much because it's a pain. I have a desktop at home. When I'm at work, I often think of TODOs for home. I write them on a post it note, and then at home have to remember to add it to my TODO (no, I'm not going to manage TODOs on my phone - whole other conversation). I'll soon set up my Claw to be able to add TODOs (just add, not modify/delete). Then at work, I'll simply record a voice message to it telling it my TODO. Same goes for movies I want to watch, books I want to read, reminders, etc. I'm particular about the weather information I want (often want cloud cover percentage and precipitation probability for a set of hours). I couldn't find a good app on my phone that gives me this information. It was always a trip to a web site, modify some options, and hit Submit. Now I just ask my Claw and he has a skill for precisely my needs. Here's an analogy: I carry a Leatherman multitool wherever I go. People ask me why. They can't comprehend needing it often to make it worth the hassle. But now that I have it on me, I use the knife very often - several times a week. And I almost never reach for a screwdriver. But until you've had it on you for a while, you can't comprehend the utility. Back in 2005, lots of people asked "Why would I want a camera on my phone?"
- theshackleford 8mo ago
  > no, I'm not going to manage TODOs on my phone - whole other conversation I will. Far simpler, far more secure and far less wasteful than inserting some additional and unrequired LLM loop + hardware/virtualisation layer on top to do something I've already been able to do for years. > But until you've had it on you for a while, you can't comprehend the utility. You've not yet described anything that literally 99% of the population can not already do with the existing hardware and software in their pocket.
  - BeetleB 8mo ago
    > Far simpler And far less capable. I have a whole system for managing TODOs, notes, etc, and I've not found an app that fits my needs (especially given that the system evolves over time). But I agree - if you have a flow that works great for you with just a phone, then I wouldn't recommend OpenClaw for that use case. > You've not yet described anything that literally 99% of the population can not already do with the existing hardware and software in their pocket. And in the early days, literally everyone I knew who owned an iPhone also owned a digital camera and a laptop. Why pay some crazy amount for a fancy phone?
    - theshackleford 8mo ago
      Well, i'm happy for you from the respect that as someone with ADHD, getting a working notes and TODO system for me was life changing, and was something that in fact took me years, and I still tend to occasionally uproot my system, so I can understand that getting to somewhere it works for you can be of tremendous value alone. > I have a whole system for managing TODOs, notes, etc So do I and it can already accept input via text or voice from my phone and so I’m just not seeing the benefit of inserting an additional LLM orchestration layer just to route tasks into it. > And far less capable. My current setup can already capture voice and text, and can route it automatically into Logseq, Trello, or even org-mode. These all can be viewed from the same (or other) devices. Honestly, I would have to think it was of more usage in retrieval than submission if I was to ever go that route. Like instead of reviewing my todos/schedule manually. > And in the early days, literally everyone I knew who owned an iPhone also owned a digital camera and a laptop. Why pay some crazy amount for a fancy phone? A Phone enabled entirely new behaviors that were not possible from my laptop or camera at the time. Persistent connectivity, real-time location services and on device image capture, edit and sharing just to name an incredibly small few. It created use cases that weren’t practical or even possible previously. I’m open to being convinced, but I haven’t yet seen an example where OpenClaw enables something meaningfully new rather than repackaging something I can already do right now. Perhaps i'd be more open to it if it not literally everything I could think of using it for did not lead to atrocious security implmentations.

andrew_k 8mo ago

Yeah, automation sounds good in theory, but you need to set it up, then it fails, and you need to fix the edge cases, maintain it. Even with OpenClaw, it still fails my daily briefing from time to time, and I keep debugging it, which isn't how I want to spend my time. At least with a bot I can keep asking it to "fix it"

hamelcubsfan 8mo ago

Quick terminology question… when you deploy one of these in OpenClaw, is the official term “agent”? I’ve seen the project name, but I’ve never been quite sure what the canonical noun is for a running instance. Are they actually called “claws”, or is that just me over-literalizing the branding? Very curious

theshrike79 8mo ago
Agents usually refer to "coding agents" but they need a human in the loop. What makes Claws Claws is that they run automatically without human intervention, BUT they're built around an Agent =) It's like if you could tell Claude Code that "at 8am tomorrow morning check the weather at my current location and send me a Telegram message". It doesn't know how to wait until 8am, it'll just do it. Or it'll create some massive hack to do it. A Claw is built for things like that and has a "memory" of stuff it needs to do in the future and the ability check it periodically.
- hamelcubsfan 8mo ago
  Thanks for this! I completely get how these "claws" work and have a few... they're super useful for specific things. I’m simply curious about the accurate or, more importantly, adopted terminology, as I've dug rather deep and have yet to find anything concrete. "Claw" it is...
simonw 8mo ago
The definition of "agent" with respect to AI has been hotly debated since at least the 1990s: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Oct/12/michael-wooldridge/ https://simonwillison.net/2024/Oct/12/michael-wooldridge/ So there is no "correct" definition even to this day - and that vagueness makes the term difficult to have useful conversations around. I've settled on "LLM making tool calls in a loop to achieve a goal", which I think is broad enough to cover what many people are talking about these days while being narrow enough to be useful. On that basis Claude Code and OpenClaw are both examples of agents - they run tools and can loop until they've achieved the goal set for them by their user.

SyneRyder 8mo ago

Have you experimented at least with running Claude (or whatever) as a cron-job? I'm seeing a lot of things emerge from just that pattern alone. I'd recommend giving Claude a way to communicate with you if it has issues to raise though, even if it knows you're asleep. I'm not running OpenClaw either, but I'm getting a ton of value just from my homebrew deterministic "run while loop, wake up Claude if trigger event occurs".