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>by looking at ads What a load of malarkey. You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device. You can even get apps with

>by looking at ads What a load of malarkey. You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device. You can even get apps with a throwaway gmail and give them no data at all. Further, there are no ads built in the OS and I never see any, period. It's just like on iOS, I don't know what on earth he's on about.

Samuel_Michon 14y ago
"You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device." You don't even have control over how much information you give Google when you use their search engine on a desktop computer. Even if you sign out of Google, turn off cookies and use a browser without geolocation. Google will always continue gathering information about you and providing you with custom search results. But even if you could turn off all data collection, the vast majority of users won't know about it. As a result, they pay Google by sharing their personal information, their interests, their location, their contacts, etc. Google's core business is advertising, they can't help themselves.
ghshephard 14y ago
The Nexus comes, by default, with google as a search engine, google mail as the mail client, google maps as the map engine. This is something that google pays organizations like Mozilla, and Apple, hundreds of millions of dollars to have on their browsers. The vast majority (95%+) of people take the default search engine and map engine that comes with their tablet/smart phone. Google is willing to take a loss on the 5% who might decide to use some other system (though, given that google makes pretty good mapping and searches, there is a better than average chance those 5% will stick with google anyways) That's why google is willing to sell a tablet for $200 that others might have to sell for $250 or $275 in order to make a profit - they don't have the search engine revenue.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  Again, it is more than easy to use an Android phone without using those. I know tons of people that use Android phones exclusively with personal accounts because they don't use Google for mail/calendar. You can even use maps without giving up your location, it just makes it damn near useless... but again... it's an unavoidable issue. For it to be useful, you're going to give up something, and if it's not to Google, it's to someone else.
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    "it's an unavoidable issue. For it to be useful, you're going to give up something, and if it's not to Google, it's to someone else." One can choose to give one's personal information to a company whose core business isn't to sell personal information to other companies. That excludes Google and Facebook.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      Right, like I've said 4 times now, it's incredibly easy to use an Android phone without sending a blip of data to Google. Also, you're absolutely insane and bordering on fanboi territory to act like Microsoft and Apple aren't collecting the exact same usage data from location services etc. You have some bone to pick with Google over advertising yet ignore the fact that it's completely a choice to use it. You people act like Google is breaking into your house and installing a GPS chip in you. It's dishonest.
      - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
        "it's incredibly easy to use an Android phone without sending a blip of data to Google." Assuming that's true, that doesn't change the fact that most users will send loads of personal data to Google without knowing it, let alone knowing how to turn it off. "like Google is breaking into your house and installing a GPS chip in you." They don't need to. They know that most users don't understand computers and don't read end-user agreements. But even if you don't use Android, they'll indeed drive by your home, take pictures and collect information about your wifi network, which enables them to link your digital life to a physical one. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9432518/Google-we-failed-to-delete-all-Streetview-data.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9432518/Google-...
        drivebyacct2 14y ago
        I'm very happy to tell you that, like most people, I was upset to find that Google collected that data. I was even less impressed with how they handled the deletion and disclosure of their mistake. I'm happy to discuss that, but it's pretty desperate to reach for that when it started with more or less: "Android has ads and Google watches everything you do on it"
- bduerst 14y ago
  None of this is advertising in Android OS. All it does is make you look like you have a bias against Google.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    Bias against Google? I love their products! I Use their Search Engine. I Buy Products from their Ads. I Use their gmail client all day long - happy to get directed ads. Use their Map Client. I love all the free stuff I get from Google. Their latest GoogleVoice App is amazing - if anything, I have a huge bias for google. It's okay to be analytical about something you love. Apple makes money on hardware. Google makes money on services. Each have different business models, and will price their products accordingly.
    - bduerst 14y ago
      Then why are you ranting about the default search engine as evidence of adverts in Android?
      - ghshephard 14y ago
        Apologies if I appeared to be ranting. My objective was to emphasize that the entire business objective of Android, an operating environment that Google has spent billions of of dollars developing and protecting, is to provide a platform for Google's advertising in search, in maps, and, soon, in voice. Because Google gets little, if any profit from hardware sales, and no (to my knowledge) license fee's from third-parties vendors, all of their profit has to come in the form of advertising. What this means, is that when comparing a hardware product from Google, and from Apple - we need to understand that Google's profit comes downstream from the advertising revenue, whereas the bulk of Apple's come's front loaded, from the hardware sale. This will then have an impact on the margins that each of the organizations will be required to pursue at various stages of the product lifecycle. Apple will start off with a high (30-40%) margin up front, but has less pressure to monetize the user eyeballs in its services. Google will start off with a lower (approaching 0%) margin up front, but then has much more pressure to monetize user eyeballs in its services. Neither business model is inherently good/bad/otherwise, but you case see how the incentives for Apple and Google are differently aligned - we've already identified one - Apple did not release Siri on the iPhone 4, even though the phone was more than adequate to run Google Voice, which was release for the iPhone 4. Google's got no skin in the game selling you more hardware. Apple isn't really incentivized to release it's premium services on old hardware...
Samuel_Michon 14y ago
"there are no ads built in the OS and I never see any, period. It's just like on iOS, I don't know what on earth he's on about." I was referring to Amazon's Kindle Fire, but the Android experience in general is filled with ads. Not only does a core app like Google Maps include sponsored links, Google pushes consumers and developers towards ad-supported apps by offering limited payment options in the Google Play store. Three quarters of all apps in the Google Play store are free, and many of those have ads supplied by Google or its daughter companies. http://www.appbrain.com/stats/free-and-paid-android-applications http://www.appbrain.com/stats/free-and-paid-android-applicat...
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  " Google pushes consumers and developers towards ad-supported apps by offering limited payment options in the Google Play store." Ok, and so does every single marketplace ever that charges a brokerage fee. I think it's completely acceptable to whine about an application that can give you a shortest path between any two spots in the world, 3d buildings, 3d perspective, vector tiles, the best business listings outside of the old white pages, etc, etc, for giving me RELEVANT sponsored results when I look for something. yeesh.
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    "so does every single marketplace ever that charges a brokerage fee." That's true to some extent, but Google does both. Google charges 30%, just like the other app marketplaces. On top of that, it even makes developers pay for chargebacks. http://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=137996 http://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/bin/a...

Samuel_Michon 14y ago

"You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device." You don't even have control over how much information you give Google when you use their search engine on a desktop computer. Even if you sign out of Google, turn off cookies and use a browser without geolocation. Google will always continue gathering information about you and providing you with custom search results. But even if you could turn off all data collection, the vast majority of users won't know about it. As a result, they pay Google by sharing their personal information, their interests, their location, their contacts, etc. Google's core business is advertising, they can't help themselves.

ghshephard 14y ago

The Nexus comes, by default, with google as a search engine, google mail as the mail client, google maps as the map engine. This is something that google pays organizations like Mozilla, and Apple, hundreds of millions of dollars to have on their browsers. The vast majority (95%+) of people take the default search engine and map engine that comes with their tablet/smart phone. Google is willing to take a loss on the 5% who might decide to use some other system (though, given that google makes pretty good mapping and searches, there is a better than average chance those 5% will stick with google anyways) That's why google is willing to sell a tablet for $200 that others might have to sell for $250 or $275 in order to make a profit - they don't have the search engine revenue.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
Again, it is more than easy to use an Android phone without using those. I know tons of people that use Android phones exclusively with personal accounts because they don't use Google for mail/calendar. You can even use maps without giving up your location, it just makes it damn near useless... but again... it's an unavoidable issue. For it to be useful, you're going to give up something, and if it's not to Google, it's to someone else.
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  "it's an unavoidable issue. For it to be useful, you're going to give up something, and if it's not to Google, it's to someone else." One can choose to give one's personal information to a company whose core business isn't to sell personal information to other companies. That excludes Google and Facebook.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    Right, like I've said 4 times now, it's incredibly easy to use an Android phone without sending a blip of data to Google. Also, you're absolutely insane and bordering on fanboi territory to act like Microsoft and Apple aren't collecting the exact same usage data from location services etc. You have some bone to pick with Google over advertising yet ignore the fact that it's completely a choice to use it. You people act like Google is breaking into your house and installing a GPS chip in you. It's dishonest.
    - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
      "it's incredibly easy to use an Android phone without sending a blip of data to Google." Assuming that's true, that doesn't change the fact that most users will send loads of personal data to Google without knowing it, let alone knowing how to turn it off. "like Google is breaking into your house and installing a GPS chip in you." They don't need to. They know that most users don't understand computers and don't read end-user agreements. But even if you don't use Android, they'll indeed drive by your home, take pictures and collect information about your wifi network, which enables them to link your digital life to a physical one. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9432518/Google-we-failed-to-delete-all-Streetview-data.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9432518/Google-...
      - drivebyacct2 14y ago
        I'm very happy to tell you that, like most people, I was upset to find that Google collected that data. I was even less impressed with how they handled the deletion and disclosure of their mistake. I'm happy to discuss that, but it's pretty desperate to reach for that when it started with more or less: "Android has ads and Google watches everything you do on it"
bduerst 14y ago
None of this is advertising in Android OS. All it does is make you look like you have a bias against Google.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Bias against Google? I love their products! I Use their Search Engine. I Buy Products from their Ads. I Use their gmail client all day long - happy to get directed ads. Use their Map Client. I love all the free stuff I get from Google. Their latest GoogleVoice App is amazing - if anything, I have a huge bias for google. It's okay to be analytical about something you love. Apple makes money on hardware. Google makes money on services. Each have different business models, and will price their products accordingly.
  - bduerst 14y ago
    Then why are you ranting about the default search engine as evidence of adverts in Android?
    - ghshephard 14y ago
      Apologies if I appeared to be ranting. My objective was to emphasize that the entire business objective of Android, an operating environment that Google has spent billions of of dollars developing and protecting, is to provide a platform for Google's advertising in search, in maps, and, soon, in voice. Because Google gets little, if any profit from hardware sales, and no (to my knowledge) license fee's from third-parties vendors, all of their profit has to come in the form of advertising. What this means, is that when comparing a hardware product from Google, and from Apple - we need to understand that Google's profit comes downstream from the advertising revenue, whereas the bulk of Apple's come's front loaded, from the hardware sale. This will then have an impact on the margins that each of the organizations will be required to pursue at various stages of the product lifecycle. Apple will start off with a high (30-40%) margin up front, but has less pressure to monetize the user eyeballs in its services. Google will start off with a lower (approaching 0%) margin up front, but then has much more pressure to monetize user eyeballs in its services. Neither business model is inherently good/bad/otherwise, but you case see how the incentives for Apple and Google are differently aligned - we've already identified one - Apple did not release Siri on the iPhone 4, even though the phone was more than adequate to run Google Voice, which was release for the iPhone 4. Google's got no skin in the game selling you more hardware. Apple isn't really incentivized to release it's premium services on old hardware...

Samuel_Michon 14y ago

"there are no ads built in the OS and I never see any, period. It's just like on iOS, I don't know what on earth he's on about." I was referring to Amazon's Kindle Fire, but the Android experience in general is filled with ads. Not only does a core app like Google Maps include sponsored links, Google pushes consumers and developers towards ad-supported apps by offering limited payment options in the Google Play store. Three quarters of all apps in the Google Play store are free, and many of those have ads supplied by Google or its daughter companies. http://www.appbrain.com/stats/free-and-paid-android-applications http://www.appbrain.com/stats/free-and-paid-android-applicat...

drivebyacct2 14y ago
" Google pushes consumers and developers towards ad-supported apps by offering limited payment options in the Google Play store." Ok, and so does every single marketplace ever that charges a brokerage fee. I think it's completely acceptable to whine about an application that can give you a shortest path between any two spots in the world, 3d buildings, 3d perspective, vector tiles, the best business listings outside of the old white pages, etc, etc, for giving me RELEVANT sponsored results when I look for something. yeesh.
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  "so does every single marketplace ever that charges a brokerage fee." That's true to some extent, but Google does both. Google charges 30%, just like the other app marketplaces. On top of that, it even makes developers pay for chargebacks. http://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=137996 http://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/bin/a...