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The 13" MacBook Pro is now 2560x1600. Give it 18 months the entire Apple line will be a minimum 2560x1600. That's fine if you are willing to drop $1000 on a l

The 13" MacBook Pro is now 2560x1600. Give it 18 months the entire Apple line will be a minimum 2560x1600. That's fine if you are willing to drop $1000 on a laptop, I don't expect we'll see $400 laptops @2560x1600 for several years - the Tablets have the advantage of free operating system, lower computing requirements, smaller physical screens, and, in the case of Amazon/Google, a willingness to subsidize the hardware sales in order to capture downstream Content/Search revenue.

Samuel_Michon 14y ago
"Tablets have the advantage of free operating system" Which tablets do you mean? Certainly not those running Android, iOS or Windows. In the case of Android, manufacturers pay Microsoft for the privilege. Android users pay with their personal information and by looking at ads. iOS isn't free either, development of the OS is included in the hardware price. And Windows RT is certainly not free, manufacturers license it from Microsoft.
- Osmium 14y ago
  Except in the case of Windows, it's not the case that OEMs have to pay licensing fees to put an OS on their tablet, and considering the state of Windows right now I can't imagine even its fees are prohibitive.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  The Tablet that Linus is referring to, the Galaxy Nexus 10, has no marginal license fee per device. Apple, likewise, doesn't pay marginal license fee's, nor does Microsoft. Laptop Makers end up paying fees per device - typically to Microsoft. OEM Fees are around $50 for Windows XP/Windows 7.
- SquareWheel 14y ago
  >Android users pay with their personal information and by looking at ads. Are you suggesting ads are built into the Android software? I was considering getting a Nexus 7 but this would totally change my mind.
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    Very few devices run stock Android, the Nexus series being the exception. I was referring to one of the most popular Android tablets, Amazon's Kindle Fire. However, since Android comes with Flash, you're likely to see more ads than on other platforms, even if you use a Nexus device.
    - estel 14y ago
      Android has not come with flash since Jelly Bean: Adobe long since stopped supporting it and it's absolutely not available on the Nexus 7 unless you sideload some legacy APK.
      - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
        Jelly Bean is the latest version of Android. Only 1.8% of Android devices run Jelly Bean. Most new Android devices being sold today do not run Jelly Bean and will very likely come with Flash. http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html Adobe stopped supporting Flash for Android 2 months a go, hardly an eternity. http://www.pcworld.com/article/260901/android_flash_player_rip_how_to_get_it_now_that_its_gone.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/260901/android_flash_player_r...
        estel 14y ago
        That's absolutely true, but you were quite explicit about Nexus devices also being included. Edit: Adobe made their original statement that they were moving away from Flash on mobile devices a year ago: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/9/2549196/adobe-flash-android-blackberry http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/9/2549196/adobe-flash-androi...
        Samuel_Michon 14y ago
        The Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus all come with Flash. And yes, Adobe made their intentions known a year a go, but that's not quite the same as ending support. Especially since many new Android devices will still have Flash.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  >by looking at ads What a load of malarkey. You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device. You can even get apps with a throwaway gmail and give them no data at all. Further, there are no ads built in the OS and I never see any, period. It's just like on iOS, I don't know what on earth he's on about.
  - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
    "You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device." You don't even have control over how much information you give Google when you use their search engine on a desktop computer. Even if you sign out of Google, turn off cookies and use a browser without geolocation. Google will always continue gathering information about you and providing you with custom search results. But even if you could turn off all data collection, the vast majority of users won't know about it. As a result, they pay Google by sharing their personal information, their interests, their location, their contacts, etc. Google's core business is advertising, they can't help themselves.
  - ghshephard 14y ago
    The Nexus comes, by default, with google as a search engine, google mail as the mail client, google maps as the map engine. This is something that google pays organizations like Mozilla, and Apple, hundreds of millions of dollars to have on their browsers. The vast majority (95%+) of people take the default search engine and map engine that comes with their tablet/smart phone. Google is willing to take a loss on the 5% who might decide to use some other system (though, given that google makes pretty good mapping and searches, there is a better than average chance those 5% will stick with google anyways) That's why google is willing to sell a tablet for $200 that others might have to sell for $250 or $275 in order to make a profit - they don't have the search engine revenue.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      Again, it is more than easy to use an Android phone without using those. I know tons of people that use Android phones exclusively with personal accounts because they don't use Google for mail/calendar. You can even use maps without giving up your location, it just makes it damn near useless... but again... it's an unavoidable issue. For it to be useful, you're going to give up something, and if it's not to Google, it's to someone else.
jklio 14y ago
While I have sympathy with your point, I haven't seen evidence is that Google is subsidizing (as I think Amazon is) rather than just selling at cost. The reason this is an important distinction is that it highlights how much the other handset makers, especially Apple, have been gouging their customers. Google's disconnect from the hardware also shows how you actually can have performance on older hardware - apparently the new real-time Google Voice is on older iOS devices that Apple said couldn't handle Siri - if you don't have an interest in the upgrade cycle.
- netcan 14y ago
  I wince a little at calling it price gouging. It's true that over the long term prices should be near marginal cost of production. But these are short term products. They need to cover their R&D costs. Costs that come with a risk that needs to be covered too. I feel a little milked when I buy a mac and kind of annoyed because I don't feel like I have an alternative (This is obviously an illusion. I don't like Windows or Linux personally, but they are both very reasonable alternatives). But macs are much older and they are still getting better (but not cheaper aargh!) ever year. On tablets and phone, these high profits have been driving wonderful innovation bringing us better devices at lower prices every year. It's not like we're getting overcharged for stagnant products. This December's devices would have been an incredible last year. Price gouging implies overcharging on essential items because the consumer has no choice. The only power Apple have over their consumers is that they really really want the stuff Apple makes, right now.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Any time Google (or any other major corporation) sells hardware at under a 20% margin, they are subsidizing their sales with revenue profit from other divisions, or the future potential of profit. It's important to note that you need to cover R&D, G&A, Marketing, etc... beyond that marginal cost. The exception would be in situations where you could make up the lost margin in huge volume (commodity sales, wholesaling, retailing other people's product). Google's average margin from other units of their business is 30%+, so it would make sense for them to invest in those business lines, unless their are some strategic reasons to focus on the tablet market - which, I'm sure, we all recognize there is. To put it more clearly - Google is not selling tablets to make a profit on hardware. They are selling tablets so they can profit from search/advertising through those tablets. Re: Google Voice on older IOS equipment. I installed it on my iPhone 4 today - it runs significantly faster than Siri on an iPhone 4S. Search results are instant, as well. Completely agree with you that this is an example of where the disconnect from hardware greatly benefits the consumer.

Samuel_Michon 14y ago

"Tablets have the advantage of free operating system" Which tablets do you mean? Certainly not those running Android, iOS or Windows. In the case of Android, manufacturers pay Microsoft for the privilege. Android users pay with their personal information and by looking at ads. iOS isn't free either, development of the OS is included in the hardware price. And Windows RT is certainly not free, manufacturers license it from Microsoft.

Osmium 14y ago
Except in the case of Windows, it's not the case that OEMs have to pay licensing fees to put an OS on their tablet, and considering the state of Windows right now I can't imagine even its fees are prohibitive.
ghshephard 14y ago
The Tablet that Linus is referring to, the Galaxy Nexus 10, has no marginal license fee per device. Apple, likewise, doesn't pay marginal license fee's, nor does Microsoft. Laptop Makers end up paying fees per device - typically to Microsoft. OEM Fees are around $50 for Windows XP/Windows 7.
SquareWheel 14y ago
>Android users pay with their personal information and by looking at ads. Are you suggesting ads are built into the Android software? I was considering getting a Nexus 7 but this would totally change my mind.
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  Very few devices run stock Android, the Nexus series being the exception. I was referring to one of the most popular Android tablets, Amazon's Kindle Fire. However, since Android comes with Flash, you're likely to see more ads than on other platforms, even if you use a Nexus device.
  - estel 14y ago
    Android has not come with flash since Jelly Bean: Adobe long since stopped supporting it and it's absolutely not available on the Nexus 7 unless you sideload some legacy APK.
    - Samuel_Michon 14y ago
      Jelly Bean is the latest version of Android. Only 1.8% of Android devices run Jelly Bean. Most new Android devices being sold today do not run Jelly Bean and will very likely come with Flash. http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html Adobe stopped supporting Flash for Android 2 months a go, hardly an eternity. http://www.pcworld.com/article/260901/android_flash_player_rip_how_to_get_it_now_that_its_gone.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/260901/android_flash_player_r...
      - estel 14y ago
        That's absolutely true, but you were quite explicit about Nexus devices also being included. Edit: Adobe made their original statement that they were moving away from Flash on mobile devices a year ago: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/9/2549196/adobe-flash-android-blackberry http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/9/2549196/adobe-flash-androi...
        Samuel_Michon 14y ago
        The Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus all come with Flash. And yes, Adobe made their intentions known a year a go, but that's not quite the same as ending support. Especially since many new Android devices will still have Flash.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
>by looking at ads What a load of malarkey. You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device. You can even get apps with a throwaway gmail and give them no data at all. Further, there are no ads built in the OS and I never see any, period. It's just like on iOS, I don't know what on earth he's on about.
- Samuel_Michon 14y ago
  "You have full control over how much information you give Google when you use the device." You don't even have control over how much information you give Google when you use their search engine on a desktop computer. Even if you sign out of Google, turn off cookies and use a browser without geolocation. Google will always continue gathering information about you and providing you with custom search results. But even if you could turn off all data collection, the vast majority of users won't know about it. As a result, they pay Google by sharing their personal information, their interests, their location, their contacts, etc. Google's core business is advertising, they can't help themselves.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  The Nexus comes, by default, with google as a search engine, google mail as the mail client, google maps as the map engine. This is something that google pays organizations like Mozilla, and Apple, hundreds of millions of dollars to have on their browsers. The vast majority (95%+) of people take the default search engine and map engine that comes with their tablet/smart phone. Google is willing to take a loss on the 5% who might decide to use some other system (though, given that google makes pretty good mapping and searches, there is a better than average chance those 5% will stick with google anyways) That's why google is willing to sell a tablet for $200 that others might have to sell for $250 or $275 in order to make a profit - they don't have the search engine revenue.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    Again, it is more than easy to use an Android phone without using those. I know tons of people that use Android phones exclusively with personal accounts because they don't use Google for mail/calendar. You can even use maps without giving up your location, it just makes it damn near useless... but again... it's an unavoidable issue. For it to be useful, you're going to give up something, and if it's not to Google, it's to someone else.

jklio 14y ago

While I have sympathy with your point, I haven't seen evidence is that Google is subsidizing (as I think Amazon is) rather than just selling at cost. The reason this is an important distinction is that it highlights how much the other handset makers, especially Apple, have been gouging their customers. Google's disconnect from the hardware also shows how you actually can have performance on older hardware - apparently the new real-time Google Voice is on older iOS devices that Apple said couldn't handle Siri - if you don't have an interest in the upgrade cycle.

netcan 14y ago
I wince a little at calling it price gouging. It's true that over the long term prices should be near marginal cost of production. But these are short term products. They need to cover their R&D costs. Costs that come with a risk that needs to be covered too. I feel a little milked when I buy a mac and kind of annoyed because I don't feel like I have an alternative (This is obviously an illusion. I don't like Windows or Linux personally, but they are both very reasonable alternatives). But macs are much older and they are still getting better (but not cheaper aargh!) ever year. On tablets and phone, these high profits have been driving wonderful innovation bringing us better devices at lower prices every year. It's not like we're getting overcharged for stagnant products. This December's devices would have been an incredible last year. Price gouging implies overcharging on essential items because the consumer has no choice. The only power Apple have over their consumers is that they really really want the stuff Apple makes, right now.
ghshephard 14y ago
Any time Google (or any other major corporation) sells hardware at under a 20% margin, they are subsidizing their sales with revenue profit from other divisions, or the future potential of profit. It's important to note that you need to cover R&D, G&A, Marketing, etc... beyond that marginal cost. The exception would be in situations where you could make up the lost margin in huge volume (commodity sales, wholesaling, retailing other people's product). Google's average margin from other units of their business is 30%+, so it would make sense for them to invest in those business lines, unless their are some strategic reasons to focus on the tablet market - which, I'm sure, we all recognize there is. To put it more clearly - Google is not selling tablets to make a profit on hardware. They are selling tablets so they can profit from search/advertising through those tablets. Re: Google Voice on older IOS equipment. I installed it on my iPhone 4 today - it runs significantly faster than Siri on an iPhone 4S. Search results are instant, as well. Completely agree with you that this is an example of where the disconnect from hardware greatly benefits the consumer.