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> so many developers and other tech nerds - the type who post on HN The average developer stopped being a "tech nerd" around 2010 or so. I think older develope

by sho_hn 8mo ago

> so many developers and other tech nerds - the type who post on HN The average developer stopped being a "tech nerd" around 2010 or so. I think older developers sometimes don't understand how the ranks have swollen and how many, many more people are in software now that don't have the "I was a nerdy kid in the 90s, loved computers and chose the career" upbringing. The average developer now has a MacBook, went to a bunch of bootcamps and writes TypeScript. Or enterprise Java if they got unlucky.

rjbwork 8mo ago
It's very evident when you work with the young juniors. I've seen people with CS degrees that don't know their keyboard shortcuts.
- DANmode 8mo ago
  I’ve got great news for you.
Zak 8mo ago
It's less surprising to me that a developer would choose a Macbook than an iPhone. You can have root on a Macbook and install software without permission from Apple (though I hear of late it may require using the command line). The hardware performance is outstanding, and while opinions are split about the OS, a lot of people who display good taste in other technical matters like it. I've chosen to spend my own money on a different laptop, but if someone offered me a high-spec Macbook Pro on the condition that I use it for a year, I'd accept.
- godelski 8mo ago
  I choose a Macbook because it's my terminal. I'm given the choice "Macbook" or "Windows laptop". I'm forced to use Microsoft products and they're actively hostile to Linux. My laptop is really just a glorified ssh machine, with a web browser, and corporate shovelware. Life is so much better in the terminal. Home is 192.168.1.0/24 and 100.64.0.0/10, it doesn't matter what screen I'm using. Home is where the ssh connection is.
  - seniorThrowaway 8mo ago
    >I'm forced to use Microsoft products and they're actively hostile to Linux How so? Powershell has openSSH built in now, and WSL2 basically works minus some annoying behavior and caveats. I have a Windows 11 laptop and I use it like you are saying as an ssh machine and web browser without much issue.
    - godelski 8mo ago
      > WSL2 basically works minus some annoying behavior and caveats. It is a lot of annoying things. Everything is just so clunky and I don't think it is surprising given that it is a subsystem. At least in the mac I can still access the computer I'm typing on through the terminal. I mean yeah, I can do that with Winblows but it is non-native and clunky. I mean ever try to open a folder with a few hundred images in it? (outside the terminal) I didn't even know this was an issue that needed to be solved. For comparison, I can open a folder in the GUI of my linux machine that has 50k images (yay datasets) and in <1s I can load the previews. In my terminal, it is almost instant (yes, I can see the images in my terminal, and yes, it is this type of stuff that is a lot clunkier on Windows). And on top of that, as frustrating as OSX is (even as terrible as OSX26 is) Winblows is worse. OSX feels disconnected, but Winblows feels hostile.
      - diacritical 8mo ago
        What setup do you use for seeing image previews (or the images themselves?) on a terminal in Linux?
        krs_ 8mo ago
        Not the original poster but possibly lsix[1], which looking at the readme should work in certain terminals on Windows as well but I haven't tried it. [1] https://github.com/hackerb9/lsix https://github.com/hackerb9/lsix
        efreak 8mo ago
rangestransform 8mo ago
I used to be a custom rom guy in high school, and I also used to develop apps for my nexus 5. Now I have an iPhone and I save the tech nerding for work hours. I definitely would not have gotten this far without my custom rom days, but now my phone just needs to do phone things so I can work on robots instead.
- mckenzba 8mo ago
  This. I was heavily involved with the Maemo community back in the day and even made an Ubuntu 9.04 port to the Nokia N800/N810. These days I'm juggling multiple responsibilities and I need to conserve my mental energy for work. I certainly credit my career on that tinkering, but these days I just want something that works so I can put my energy elsewhere.
  - idiotsecant 8mo ago
    >I need to conserve my mental energy for work. Is perhaps the saddest sentence. Whats the point of working when you don't have enough energy left to do the fun stuff?
    - thankyoufriend 8mo ago
      You might be reading into that too much. It's more likely that this person's definition of what is "fun" has changed since they were younger. Spending time with family/friends or engaging with new hobbies might be how they have fun now, and that's perfectly fine.
      - encom 8mo ago
        Yea, messing with my computer isn't as fun for me as it once was. There's something screwy with my CPU cooler, and I've been putting off dealing with it for well over a year. I still wouldn't be caught dead with a Macbook - I do have some self respect.
    - crubier 8mo ago
bikelang 8mo ago
This is such an uncharitable take of your peers. The issue is not pedigree - it’s that many folks have an incurious mind. I certainly know many folks with a CS degree that are incurious and frankly terrible engineers. I also know bootcampers that are extremely curious, have a lifelong-learner attitude, and are subsequently great engineers. There’s nothing special taught in the vaunted halls of a CS undergrad that can’t be trivially learned off YouTube.
- kid64 8mo ago
  I agree with your first couple of sentences. But the YouTube bit is dangerous misinformation. You cannot match any credible university education by watching YouTube.
  - bikelang 8mo ago
    There are many wonderful educational channels on YouTube. Just as in a classroom - you cannot passively absorb material and expect to understand it with any depth. You can absolutely get the same education off YouTube. The only advantage a proper course provides is pre-made structure. But even that is accessible to the motivated learner.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
swiftcoder 8mo ago
Back in the 90s, Macs were mostly used by the "tech nerds". Normal people ran windows 95/98. It's still kind of weird to me that Macs became sufficiently mainstream as to lose their tech nerd cred :)
- Aldipower 8mo ago
  My memories are different. Macs were run by media guys for graphics, video and audio. Tech nerds used, sure Windows, DOS, but also Linux already, many types of Unixes, Netware, Commodore Amiga, Atari ST or Falcon. But Macs? No!
  - kid64 8mo ago
    Exactly, Macs were more of a yuppie toy for people that didn't need real computers.
  - swiftcoder 8mo ago
    Maybe "tech nerd" is being interpreted in a specific way that I don't quite follow. Are the multimedia guys with the expensive tech setups not nerdy enough?
    - kortilla 8mo ago
      They were nerds but not computer nerds. “tech nerd” would be someone building computers, learning how to program a bit, war driving, etc
      - swiftcoder 8mo ago
        Huh. For me "tech nerd" has always been more general, and encompassed the folks pushing the envelope in multimedia/games/home-automation, and so on
  - dismalaf 8mo ago
    I was young but I do remember during the 90's my really nerdy computer/programmer friends being into Apple stuff until around the time Steve Jobs left, then getting into Unixes and eventually messing around with Linux or going back to Apple when they adopted a Unix base for OSX. My own experience was learning on an old IBM PC at school, then Apple 2s later. Also my dad was a programmer (but maybe less nerdy/more professional) so I got second hand x86 hardware and learned to program on Windows with Visual Basic, Delphi and Visual C++ (since he already had licenses). Eventually I got into Linux in the late 90's.
panick21_ 8mo ago
I know plenty of tech nerds who have been Apple fans since the 80s.
- homarp 8mo ago
  on the Apple //e
neya 8mo ago
> writes TypeScript. Or enterprise Java if they got unlucky. I would argue writing TypeScript is also equally being unlucky (I write Elixir for a living, but sometimes have to deal with TypeScript too)

by sho_hn 8mo ago

rjbwork 8mo ago

It's very evident when you work with the young juniors. I've seen people with CS degrees that don't know their keyboard shortcuts.

DANmode 8mo ago
I’ve got great news for you.

Zak 8mo ago

It's less surprising to me that a developer would choose a Macbook than an iPhone. You can have root on a Macbook and install software without permission from Apple (though I hear of late it may require using the command line). The hardware performance is outstanding, and while opinions are split about the OS, a lot of people who display good taste in other technical matters like it. I've chosen to spend my own money on a different laptop, but if someone offered me a high-spec Macbook Pro on the condition that I use it for a year, I'd accept.

godelski 8mo ago
I choose a Macbook because it's my terminal. I'm given the choice "Macbook" or "Windows laptop". I'm forced to use Microsoft products and they're actively hostile to Linux. My laptop is really just a glorified ssh machine, with a web browser, and corporate shovelware. Life is so much better in the terminal. Home is 192.168.1.0/24 and 100.64.0.0/10, it doesn't matter what screen I'm using. Home is where the ssh connection is.
- seniorThrowaway 8mo ago
  >I'm forced to use Microsoft products and they're actively hostile to Linux How so? Powershell has openSSH built in now, and WSL2 basically works minus some annoying behavior and caveats. I have a Windows 11 laptop and I use it like you are saying as an ssh machine and web browser without much issue.
  - godelski 8mo ago
    > WSL2 basically works minus some annoying behavior and caveats. It is a lot of annoying things. Everything is just so clunky and I don't think it is surprising given that it is a subsystem. At least in the mac I can still access the computer I'm typing on through the terminal. I mean yeah, I can do that with Winblows but it is non-native and clunky. I mean ever try to open a folder with a few hundred images in it? (outside the terminal) I didn't even know this was an issue that needed to be solved. For comparison, I can open a folder in the GUI of my linux machine that has 50k images (yay datasets) and in <1s I can load the previews. In my terminal, it is almost instant (yes, I can see the images in my terminal, and yes, it is this type of stuff that is a lot clunkier on Windows). And on top of that, as frustrating as OSX is (even as terrible as OSX26 is) Winblows is worse. OSX feels disconnected, but Winblows feels hostile.
    - diacritical 8mo ago
      What setup do you use for seeing image previews (or the images themselves?) on a terminal in Linux?
      - krs_ 8mo ago
        Not the original poster but possibly lsix[1], which looking at the readme should work in certain terminals on Windows as well but I haven't tried it. [1] https://github.com/hackerb9/lsix https://github.com/hackerb9/lsix
        efreak 8mo ago

rangestransform 8mo ago

I used to be a custom rom guy in high school, and I also used to develop apps for my nexus 5. Now I have an iPhone and I save the tech nerding for work hours. I definitely would not have gotten this far without my custom rom days, but now my phone just needs to do phone things so I can work on robots instead.

mckenzba 8mo ago
This. I was heavily involved with the Maemo community back in the day and even made an Ubuntu 9.04 port to the Nokia N800/N810. These days I'm juggling multiple responsibilities and I need to conserve my mental energy for work. I certainly credit my career on that tinkering, but these days I just want something that works so I can put my energy elsewhere.
- idiotsecant 8mo ago
  >I need to conserve my mental energy for work. Is perhaps the saddest sentence. Whats the point of working when you don't have enough energy left to do the fun stuff?
  - thankyoufriend 8mo ago
    You might be reading into that too much. It's more likely that this person's definition of what is "fun" has changed since they were younger. Spending time with family/friends or engaging with new hobbies might be how they have fun now, and that's perfectly fine.
    - encom 8mo ago
      Yea, messing with my computer isn't as fun for me as it once was. There's something screwy with my CPU cooler, and I've been putting off dealing with it for well over a year. I still wouldn't be caught dead with a Macbook - I do have some self respect.
  - crubier 8mo ago

bikelang 8mo ago

This is such an uncharitable take of your peers. The issue is not pedigree - it’s that many folks have an incurious mind. I certainly know many folks with a CS degree that are incurious and frankly terrible engineers. I also know bootcampers that are extremely curious, have a lifelong-learner attitude, and are subsequently great engineers. There’s nothing special taught in the vaunted halls of a CS undergrad that can’t be trivially learned off YouTube.

kid64 8mo ago
I agree with your first couple of sentences. But the YouTube bit is dangerous misinformation. You cannot match any credible university education by watching YouTube.
- bikelang 8mo ago
  There are many wonderful educational channels on YouTube. Just as in a classroom - you cannot passively absorb material and expect to understand it with any depth. You can absolutely get the same education off YouTube. The only advantage a proper course provides is pre-made structure. But even that is accessible to the motivated learner.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]

swiftcoder 8mo ago

Back in the 90s, Macs were mostly used by the "tech nerds". Normal people ran windows 95/98. It's still kind of weird to me that Macs became sufficiently mainstream as to lose their tech nerd cred :)

Aldipower 8mo ago
My memories are different. Macs were run by media guys for graphics, video and audio. Tech nerds used, sure Windows, DOS, but also Linux already, many types of Unixes, Netware, Commodore Amiga, Atari ST or Falcon. But Macs? No!
- kid64 8mo ago
  Exactly, Macs were more of a yuppie toy for people that didn't need real computers.
- swiftcoder 8mo ago
  Maybe "tech nerd" is being interpreted in a specific way that I don't quite follow. Are the multimedia guys with the expensive tech setups not nerdy enough?
  - kortilla 8mo ago
    They were nerds but not computer nerds. “tech nerd” would be someone building computers, learning how to program a bit, war driving, etc
    - swiftcoder 8mo ago
      Huh. For me "tech nerd" has always been more general, and encompassed the folks pushing the envelope in multimedia/games/home-automation, and so on
- dismalaf 8mo ago
  I was young but I do remember during the 90's my really nerdy computer/programmer friends being into Apple stuff until around the time Steve Jobs left, then getting into Unixes and eventually messing around with Linux or going back to Apple when they adopted a Unix base for OSX. My own experience was learning on an old IBM PC at school, then Apple 2s later. Also my dad was a programmer (but maybe less nerdy/more professional) so I got second hand x86 hardware and learned to program on Windows with Visual Basic, Delphi and Visual C++ (since he already had licenses). Eventually I got into Linux in the late 90's.

panick21_ 8mo ago

I know plenty of tech nerds who have been Apple fans since the 80s.

homarp 8mo ago
on the Apple //e

neya 8mo ago

> writes TypeScript. Or enterprise Java if they got unlucky. I would argue writing TypeScript is also equally being unlucky (I write Elixir for a living, but sometimes have to deal with TypeScript too)