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The aerodynamic situation of a bicycle is so disadvantageous that the easiest way to get a long range e-bike is to simply ride more slowly. People internalize b

by jeffbee 8mo ago

The aerodynamic situation of a bicycle is so disadvantageous that the easiest way to get a long range e-bike is to simply ride more slowly. People internalize beliefs about energy-range ratios from electric cars, but they don't translate well to bicycles.

jandrese 8mo ago
It is kind of a shame that recumbent bikes are expensive and bike nerd coded. A recumbent e-bike with an aeroshell would be fantastically efficient and useful in so many situations, but if you tried to buy one today it is going to cost as much as a car and have everybody else sneering at you.
- jacquesm 8mo ago
  They're also a great way to get really badly hurt.
  - trelliumD 8mo ago
    No, that is not true. If you ride a velomobile, you are protected by its aeroshell. Consider it a full body helmet. You are rather flipped/ pushed away, than coming under a car. Of course you are not happy after a crash, but you mostly survive. And you also have other benefits, such as weather protection. In heavy rains you are sitting dry in your bicycle, listening to your radio, where your fellow ebiker gets soaking wet. And did i mention carco capacity :-)
    - jacquesm 8mo ago
      A Velomobile is not a socially acceptable vehicle, it is very fast compared to a normal bike but still limited to bike infrastructure and other cyclists absolutely hate them. Yes, they solve the leg suck problem and if all of the cars would be gone and you could use the roads then that would be a great solution. I lived right next door to the guys that developed it and in the Groningen country side you could see them zoom by with some regularity. But where I live now I think I've seen exactly one in five years and that was after it had bowled into a mom on a cargo bike... the stigma roughly identical to driving a Canta on the bike path.
      - trelliumD 8mo ago
        Apparantly we have a different idea about it :-) The Netherlands has the best bicycle infrastructure in the world. However that does not mean that it is perfect. Usually the cycling paths are too narrow and strangely routed. And like if you put many rats in a small cage, they are going to fight, and so also on the Dutch cycling paths it is fighting for space. Currently we have here the discussion about fat-bikes, that is the same discussion, and the same non arguments. Those are also e bikes, but with big tires, and they look different, and what is different has got to go away. Velomobiles have another option, and that is that they are allowed on the roads. (according to RVV deel 2 art 4.) and that is what i do in city centers, as i go the same speed as cars. But it is much dependent on the situation. (Did you live next to Sinner bikes ?)
  - avhon1 8mo ago
    Recumbent trikes have the potential for leg suck, but two-wheelers havee no especial safety risks.
    - jacquesm 8mo ago
      This wasn't a trike but a two wheeler and you can have leg suck on those just the same (low racer, a Zephyr).
- loeg 8mo ago
  > recumbent e-bike with an aeroshell The term of art here is "velomobile."
  - jandrese 8mo ago
    Congratulations. I didn't think they could get any more nerdy and yet you found a way.
    - loeg 8mo ago
      As Maui said, “you’re welcome.”
- avhon1 8mo ago
  > recumbent bikes are expensive New recumbents are expensive, but used ones are very cheap. Afyer seeing several within an hour's drive of me for $300, I got a Rans Rocket for $100. Appparently it had been available (but poorly advertised) for two years. A little while after I became "the guy who rides a recumbent", I was given a Rans Vivo for free, because the owner hhad determined that the expected sale price wasn't worth the time and effort to sell.
loeg 8mo ago
The exact same thing applies to electric cars, though -- going slower significantly increases your range.
- jeffbee 8mo ago
  But cars have much larger constants and linear terms in their efficiency equation and they hit peak efficiency at 15 MPH or higher, whereas a bicycle peaks at half that.
wffurr 8mo ago
What about a velomobile? They're quite expensive because they're boutique items right now, but it seems like using the pedelec classification for something with significantly better aerodynamics would make for an interesting electric vehicle.

by jeffbee 8mo ago

jandrese 8mo ago

It is kind of a shame that recumbent bikes are expensive and bike nerd coded. A recumbent e-bike with an aeroshell would be fantastically efficient and useful in so many situations, but if you tried to buy one today it is going to cost as much as a car and have everybody else sneering at you.

jacquesm 8mo ago
They're also a great way to get really badly hurt.
- trelliumD 8mo ago
  No, that is not true. If you ride a velomobile, you are protected by its aeroshell. Consider it a full body helmet. You are rather flipped/ pushed away, than coming under a car. Of course you are not happy after a crash, but you mostly survive. And you also have other benefits, such as weather protection. In heavy rains you are sitting dry in your bicycle, listening to your radio, where your fellow ebiker gets soaking wet. And did i mention carco capacity :-)
  - jacquesm 8mo ago
    A Velomobile is not a socially acceptable vehicle, it is very fast compared to a normal bike but still limited to bike infrastructure and other cyclists absolutely hate them. Yes, they solve the leg suck problem and if all of the cars would be gone and you could use the roads then that would be a great solution. I lived right next door to the guys that developed it and in the Groningen country side you could see them zoom by with some regularity. But where I live now I think I've seen exactly one in five years and that was after it had bowled into a mom on a cargo bike... the stigma roughly identical to driving a Canta on the bike path.
    - trelliumD 8mo ago
      Apparantly we have a different idea about it :-) The Netherlands has the best bicycle infrastructure in the world. However that does not mean that it is perfect. Usually the cycling paths are too narrow and strangely routed. And like if you put many rats in a small cage, they are going to fight, and so also on the Dutch cycling paths it is fighting for space. Currently we have here the discussion about fat-bikes, that is the same discussion, and the same non arguments. Those are also e bikes, but with big tires, and they look different, and what is different has got to go away. Velomobiles have another option, and that is that they are allowed on the roads. (according to RVV deel 2 art 4.) and that is what i do in city centers, as i go the same speed as cars. But it is much dependent on the situation. (Did you live next to Sinner bikes ?)
- avhon1 8mo ago
  Recumbent trikes have the potential for leg suck, but two-wheelers havee no especial safety risks.
  - jacquesm 8mo ago
    This wasn't a trike but a two wheeler and you can have leg suck on those just the same (low racer, a Zephyr).
loeg 8mo ago
> recumbent e-bike with an aeroshell The term of art here is "velomobile."
- jandrese 8mo ago
  Congratulations. I didn't think they could get any more nerdy and yet you found a way.
  - loeg 8mo ago
    As Maui said, “you’re welcome.”
avhon1 8mo ago
> recumbent bikes are expensive New recumbents are expensive, but used ones are very cheap. Afyer seeing several within an hour's drive of me for $300, I got a Rans Rocket for $100. Appparently it had been available (but poorly advertised) for two years. A little while after I became "the guy who rides a recumbent", I was given a Rans Vivo for free, because the owner hhad determined that the expected sale price wasn't worth the time and effort to sell.

loeg 8mo ago

The exact same thing applies to electric cars, though -- going slower significantly increases your range.

jeffbee 8mo ago
But cars have much larger constants and linear terms in their efficiency equation and they hit peak efficiency at 15 MPH or higher, whereas a bicycle peaks at half that.

wffurr 8mo ago

What about a velomobile? They're quite expensive because they're boutique items right now, but it seems like using the pedelec classification for something with significantly better aerodynamics would make for an interesting electric vehicle.