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As an alternative mode of transportation, that could/should replace car usage for many people, I think we need to separate the two completely as well. The throt

As an alternative mode of transportation, that could/should replace car usage for many people, I think we need to separate the two completely as well. The throttle version needs to be regulated more like a motorcycle or moped. This would take it out of the hands of most kids and cause license suspension worries for young adults and other reckless users. I agree they are essentially death machines and governments generally have no sane approach to regulating them. That said, I think the e-moto versions have more potential towards alleviating traffic or being an alternative mode of transportation as most people don’t want to peddle at all. E-bikes are great, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that would ever be on the average Joe’s list of feasible alternatives.

SoftTalker 8mo ago
> most people don’t want to peddle at all. Most people don't want a two-wheeler, period. Otherwise everyone would be riding motorcycles. People want a vehicle that will keep them dry, comfortable, and safe. Two-wheelers of all types fail at all of those things.
- oblio 8mo ago
  Plenty of people will ride two wheelers if the infrastructure is good. Most places in the world just have crap infrastructure for using bicycles safely and calmly.
  - conductr 8mo ago
    I tend to agree more with GP, at least in the western world. People I know and pretty certain a huge percentage of the US start their day getting dolled up. Hair, makeup, clothes, etc each and every day. Even without the physical excursions of peddling, people don’t want to be exposed to the dirty outside air and especially dealing with the elements. The want to move from one climate controlled setting to another including their transportation system. The Netherlands where biking is common has a completely different norm for style, dress, fashion and even hygiene because they’ve become so used to biking. The rest of the western world has some work to do in those areas or some realities to face if they ever wanted to actually get on board with bicycling as transportation.
    - oblio 8mo ago
      > Even without the physical excursions of peddling, Physical exertion of pedalling :-) Also, ebikes. Going slow. In non-hot climates people don't really sweat on bikes. Especially if the bike infra is good (so distances are short due to bike overpasses, bridges, tunnels, etc) and safe (so no stress due to having to avoid getting hit by cars). > people don’t want to be exposed to the dirty outside air Said "dirty air" is only dirty because of cars. Vicious cycle, catch 22. > The rest of the western world has some work to do in those areas or some realities to face if they ever wanted to actually get on board with bicycling as transportation. That's the real problem, and it's even worse, and it ties in with this: > The want to move from one climate controlled setting to another including their transportation system. Laziness/convenience. People don't really realize that convenience kills. Life is too comfortable and our bodies aren't made for being bored and comfortable 24/7. They can go crazy and do stuff like increase autoimmune attacks (and many other things, a lot of our internal systems function worse when not used).
WarmWash 8mo ago
There is nothing standing in the way of electric motorcycles. People get e-motos because it is effectively a motorcycle, except it doesn't have any road legality requirements. People treat them like bicycles that can just magically go 50mph.
- conductr 8mo ago
  That's the problem, they need to be regulated more like motorcycles so there is differentiation between them and the real e-bikes. Treating them as the same does no good
carlosjobim 8mo ago
> could/should replace car usage for many people Motorcycles already did that. E-bikes or E-motos do not bring any advantages compared to normal motorbikes, so you shouldn't expect many people to switch.
- Qwertious 8mo ago
  Is $$$ not an advantage? Motorbikes are at least triple the price AIUI, not to mention more regulated. The main advantage of an ebike is that it's basically a pushbike (in terms of cost) but it lets you be lazy and unfit while still using it successfully as if you were fit. Yes, there's a few extra hundred bucks in cost, and there's an electricity bill for charging it, but frankly that's nothing. You can buy an ebike for 3 digits, and you could include the power bill in that figure and not notice.
  - carlosjobim 8mo ago
    > Is $$$ not an advantage? Of course not, since motorcycles are much much cheaper than cars.
- mc3301 8mo ago
  Cheaper, quieter, smaller footprint for storage, can be easily brought up a few stairs or put in the back of your car (by one person), slower (a perceived safety advantage by some, as most motorcycles can go highway speed), maintenance is less daunting (again, perceived), culture (perceived) as some people are quite turned off by motorcycle culture, and many many more. One of the major problems with ebikes is the existence of cars and related infra.
  - carlosjobim 8mo ago
    Motorcycles have all those advantages against cars, except being able to bring them indoors. Yet people aren't all riding around on motorcycles. E-Bikes have their niche, but they're not going to replace cars, since motorcycles didn't. Motorcycle culture is something you choose if you participate in. If you're a lady commuting to work on a scooter, few people will expect you to participate in that.

SoftTalker 8mo ago

> most people don’t want to peddle at all. Most people don't want a two-wheeler, period. Otherwise everyone would be riding motorcycles. People want a vehicle that will keep them dry, comfortable, and safe. Two-wheelers of all types fail at all of those things.

oblio 8mo ago
Plenty of people will ride two wheelers if the infrastructure is good. Most places in the world just have crap infrastructure for using bicycles safely and calmly.
- conductr 8mo ago
  I tend to agree more with GP, at least in the western world. People I know and pretty certain a huge percentage of the US start their day getting dolled up. Hair, makeup, clothes, etc each and every day. Even without the physical excursions of peddling, people don’t want to be exposed to the dirty outside air and especially dealing with the elements. The want to move from one climate controlled setting to another including their transportation system. The Netherlands where biking is common has a completely different norm for style, dress, fashion and even hygiene because they’ve become so used to biking. The rest of the western world has some work to do in those areas or some realities to face if they ever wanted to actually get on board with bicycling as transportation.
  - oblio 8mo ago
    > Even without the physical excursions of peddling, Physical exertion of pedalling :-) Also, ebikes. Going slow. In non-hot climates people don't really sweat on bikes. Especially if the bike infra is good (so distances are short due to bike overpasses, bridges, tunnels, etc) and safe (so no stress due to having to avoid getting hit by cars). > people don’t want to be exposed to the dirty outside air Said "dirty air" is only dirty because of cars. Vicious cycle, catch 22. > The rest of the western world has some work to do in those areas or some realities to face if they ever wanted to actually get on board with bicycling as transportation. That's the real problem, and it's even worse, and it ties in with this: > The want to move from one climate controlled setting to another including their transportation system. Laziness/convenience. People don't really realize that convenience kills. Life is too comfortable and our bodies aren't made for being bored and comfortable 24/7. They can go crazy and do stuff like increase autoimmune attacks (and many other things, a lot of our internal systems function worse when not used).

WarmWash 8mo ago

There is nothing standing in the way of electric motorcycles. People get e-motos because it is effectively a motorcycle, except it doesn't have any road legality requirements. People treat them like bicycles that can just magically go 50mph.

conductr 8mo ago
That's the problem, they need to be regulated more like motorcycles so there is differentiation between them and the real e-bikes. Treating them as the same does no good

carlosjobim 8mo ago

> could/should replace car usage for many people Motorcycles already did that. E-bikes or E-motos do not bring any advantages compared to normal motorbikes, so you shouldn't expect many people to switch.

Qwertious 8mo ago
Is $$$ not an advantage? Motorbikes are at least triple the price AIUI, not to mention more regulated. The main advantage of an ebike is that it's basically a pushbike (in terms of cost) but it lets you be lazy and unfit while still using it successfully as if you were fit. Yes, there's a few extra hundred bucks in cost, and there's an electricity bill for charging it, but frankly that's nothing. You can buy an ebike for 3 digits, and you could include the power bill in that figure and not notice.
- carlosjobim 8mo ago
  > Is $$$ not an advantage? Of course not, since motorcycles are much much cheaper than cars.
mc3301 8mo ago
Cheaper, quieter, smaller footprint for storage, can be easily brought up a few stairs or put in the back of your car (by one person), slower (a perceived safety advantage by some, as most motorcycles can go highway speed), maintenance is less daunting (again, perceived), culture (perceived) as some people are quite turned off by motorcycle culture, and many many more. One of the major problems with ebikes is the existence of cars and related infra.
- carlosjobim 8mo ago
  Motorcycles have all those advantages against cars, except being able to bring them indoors. Yet people aren't all riding around on motorcycles. E-Bikes have their niche, but they're not going to replace cars, since motorcycles didn't. Motorcycle culture is something you choose if you participate in. If you're a lady commuting to work on a scooter, few people will expect you to participate in that.