5 ms·

Strongly disagree with this. Bad junior devs might be useless, but I’ve seen good ones absolutely tear through features. Junior devs fresh out of school typical

Strongly disagree with this. Bad junior devs might be useless, but I’ve seen good ones absolutely tear through features. Junior devs fresh out of school typically have tons of energy, haven’t been burned out, and are serious about wanting to get work done.

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
And how do they compare to what a senior dev can do with Claude Code/Codex? I bet you a senior could do with one good prompt to Claude what a junior would take a day to do before AI - and take time away from the senior.
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  > I bet you a senior could do with one good prompt to Claude what a junior would take a day to do before AI It would still be a waste of a seniors time to write that prompt. They should have more important things to spend time on
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    And it’s not a waste of their time to have to give detailed requirements and troubleshooting steps to a junior developer, constantly being interrupted, and then having to check their work thoroughly? If you have to be that detailed anyway - you might as well use AI.
    - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
      No, teaching the next generation of humans is not a waste of time I'm very sorry for you that you think that way
      - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        So exactly how am I going to convince my management to open a req for a junior developer who is not going to help us meet our quarterly goals and take time away from the other senior developers that will either have to work longer hours or do less work? I’m not going to work as a charity and neither are any of my coworkers. We are all here to exchange labor for money.
        bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        We as a collective need to convince our management of this, but that needs to start with people getting their heads out of their asses and working together instead of this mercenary attitude you have
        raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        I don’t have to do anything except keep my head down, do my job and enjoy my well earned autonomy. I’m definitely not going to try to convince my skip, skip, skip manager to change their hiring policies. It’s not like my line level manager has any power over anything Even when I was at a startup before 2020 and I did have the ear of the CTO and the founders I knew my ultimate mission was to do what was needed to get acquired and before that I knew exactly what my mission was when k was hired to lead the tech initiatives as we were acquiring companies “find efficiencies” and go public. Or do you think I could have convince anyone of anything as an L5 at AWS in the middle between architect at a startup and my current company?
        orangecoffee 7mo ago
        Your getting unnecessarily down voted by devs who want to feel morally superior, but don't have any concrete answer to the conundrum you've posed. It's about money, and the actual solution would be to lower pay at senior level and give it to juniors, with some lock in agreed by the junior in exchange for this grace. I doubt the vast majority will agree to this.
        7mo ago
- Blackthorn 7mo ago
  Pretty favorably, because the coding agents suck.
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    So do junior devs. I’ve gotten great results treating coding agents as junior devs where I keep my hands on the wheel
    - Blackthorn 7mo ago
      Some of you folks think way too highly of yourselves. Junior devs are awesome. You tell them what needs doing, if it's not well defined you have them write a document to figure it out, and then they churn away at it and will often surprise you with a brilliant solution. Meanwhile, I've never once seen a coding agent give a brilliant solution or design to just about anything, and anything with the barest whiff of undefined-ness will simply zero in on your existing biases. This whole thread reads like absolute insanity to me. I love getting new junior devs. They do great work.
      - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Now ask a junior dev to design a concurrency implementation. To know the complete in my case AWS SDK and write a script in 3 minutes. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/boto3/latest/ https://docs.aws.amazon.com/boto3/latest/ Or do the same for IAC - same surface area - and use Terraform on one project, CloudFormation on another, and the CDK on a third and to generate code for you when you give them the correct architecture. It took me a day to do that before AI depending on the architectural complexity and I know AWS well (trust me on this). How long would it take me to delegate that to a junior dev? It took ChatGPT 2 minutes before I started using Claude just by my pasting a well labeled architecture diagram and explaining the goal. It took me about 8 hours total to vibe code an internal web tool with a lot of features that if I had estimated before AI, I would have said a mid level developer would have taken two weeks at least. It wasn’t complex - just a CRUD app with Cognito authentication. How long would it have taken a junior developer?

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago

And how do they compare to what a senior dev can do with Claude Code/Codex? I bet you a senior could do with one good prompt to Claude what a junior would take a day to do before AI - and take time away from the senior.

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
> I bet you a senior could do with one good prompt to Claude what a junior would take a day to do before AI It would still be a waste of a seniors time to write that prompt. They should have more important things to spend time on
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  And it’s not a waste of their time to have to give detailed requirements and troubleshooting steps to a junior developer, constantly being interrupted, and then having to check their work thoroughly? If you have to be that detailed anyway - you might as well use AI.
  - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
    No, teaching the next generation of humans is not a waste of time I'm very sorry for you that you think that way
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      So exactly how am I going to convince my management to open a req for a junior developer who is not going to help us meet our quarterly goals and take time away from the other senior developers that will either have to work longer hours or do less work? I’m not going to work as a charity and neither are any of my coworkers. We are all here to exchange labor for money.
      - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        We as a collective need to convince our management of this, but that needs to start with people getting their heads out of their asses and working together instead of this mercenary attitude you have
        raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        I don’t have to do anything except keep my head down, do my job and enjoy my well earned autonomy. I’m definitely not going to try to convince my skip, skip, skip manager to change their hiring policies. It’s not like my line level manager has any power over anything Even when I was at a startup before 2020 and I did have the ear of the CTO and the founders I knew my ultimate mission was to do what was needed to get acquired and before that I knew exactly what my mission was when k was hired to lead the tech initiatives as we were acquiring companies “find efficiencies” and go public. Or do you think I could have convince anyone of anything as an L5 at AWS in the middle between architect at a startup and my current company?
        orangecoffee 7mo ago
        Your getting unnecessarily down voted by devs who want to feel morally superior, but don't have any concrete answer to the conundrum you've posed. It's about money, and the actual solution would be to lower pay at senior level and give it to juniors, with some lock in agreed by the junior in exchange for this grace. I doubt the vast majority will agree to this.
        7mo ago
Blackthorn 7mo ago
Pretty favorably, because the coding agents suck.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  So do junior devs. I’ve gotten great results treating coding agents as junior devs where I keep my hands on the wheel
  - Blackthorn 7mo ago
    Some of you folks think way too highly of yourselves. Junior devs are awesome. You tell them what needs doing, if it's not well defined you have them write a document to figure it out, and then they churn away at it and will often surprise you with a brilliant solution. Meanwhile, I've never once seen a coding agent give a brilliant solution or design to just about anything, and anything with the barest whiff of undefined-ness will simply zero in on your existing biases. This whole thread reads like absolute insanity to me. I love getting new junior devs. They do great work.
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      Now ask a junior dev to design a concurrency implementation. To know the complete in my case AWS SDK and write a script in 3 minutes. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/boto3/latest/ https://docs.aws.amazon.com/boto3/latest/ Or do the same for IAC - same surface area - and use Terraform on one project, CloudFormation on another, and the CDK on a third and to generate code for you when you give them the correct architecture. It took me a day to do that before AI depending on the architectural complexity and I know AWS well (trust me on this). How long would it take me to delegate that to a junior dev? It took ChatGPT 2 minutes before I started using Claude just by my pasting a well labeled architecture diagram and explaining the goal. It took me about 8 hours total to vibe code an internal web tool with a lot of features that if I had estimated before AI, I would have said a mid level developer would have taken two weeks at least. It wasn’t complex - just a CRUD app with Cognito authentication. How long would it have taken a junior developer?