5 ms·

> "First of all you guys seem to be very morally flexible in general. There needs to be a lot of trust in employer-employee relationships." Tomorrow will be th

by dxbydt 14y ago

> "First of all you guys seem to be very morally flexible in general. There needs to be a lot of trust in employer-employee relationships." Tomorrow will be the end of my first 3 months in the Valley, and let me say the one aspect in which the Valley is vastly, 180 degrees, different from the rest of the country, is this "moral flexibility" business. I've worked over a decade in the east coast, and things are much more old fashioned back there in this aspect...people respect job contracts, put things down on paper, worry about hiring/firing and the impact it will have on the new hire, his family, healthcare etc. Not so in the valley. I got involved with a yc company too, and this is what transpired - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4567857 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4567857 It wasn't remotely pleasant...and while it all worked out in the end ( in the sense I got a diff job at a diff non-yc company) , it did leave a horrible taste in the mouth. The folks running the show were ...I hate to use the word...scamsters. Literally. You try these sort of stunts in a big company, people will take you to the cleaners. Its just that out here, you have the weight of the VC's & their billions behind you, coupled with the fact that you can always claim you are "just a startup" and so this sort of behavior is on par. Its an awesome thing for the startup community & the ecosystem at large - this moral flexibility - because it adds to the incredible speed at which you can iterate & pivot & all that jazz. But it does suck to be an employee at one of these gigs...you are at the receiving end of juvenile behavior & you have no recourse.

argumentum 14y ago
But it does suck to be an employee at one of these gigs...you are at the receiving end of juvenile behavior & you have no recourse. I have to disagree strongly with this statement. Yes, you put yourself at risk by working at a startup vs a big company... this is a risky business. I myself will end up with nearly nothing, after taking no salary for 5 months and leaving the company I founded for new ideas. It does NOT suck.. in fact the summer experiences of the interns we laid off were on average way better than they would have received at big companies. For the short time they were with us, they brainstormed our product from the ground up, went along and participated in office hours, meeting YC partners and co-founders of other startups in my batch and attend parties and events. They've made valuable connections and now know what it's like to start a startup (the good and the bad). Every intern at my s12 batchmates' companies that I've talked to raves about the experience. Our own interns all got new internships within a week or two (at mostly yc, but a couple 500startups cos as well) that paid equal or more than we did and had fruitful summer experiences (this was our #1 priority while pivoting, even more than our own startup). Yes, they took a risk, at first it seemed like it backfired, but in the end I am sure none of them would take it back.
- dxbydt 14y ago
  >I have to disagree strongly with this statement Dude, you can disagree all day long. You have no locus standi - you were the employer, not the employee. One of these days, the shoe => other foot, and then you can tell me if it sucks or not. Especially when you are stuck in a new state with no healthcare & a family dependent on you, after leaving a 6 figure job at a bigco where chances of getting canned was like asymptotically close to nil. Anycase, I was not talking about you here...am sure you are an awesome guy & ran an awesome startup etc...just that there are other not-so-awesome startups & not-so-awesome founders out there.
  - argumentum 14y ago
    Especially when you are stuck in a new state with no healthcare & a family dependent on you I don't say it's the right decision for everyone, perhaps for someone with a dependent family the right decision is to stay with the big company. But to take away the FREEDOM to take a risk, that is simply wrong... let me quote James Madison from the 10th Federalist Paper. It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy (destroying libery), that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.
  - argumentum 14y ago
    just that there are other not-so-awesome startups & not-so-awesome founders out there. There are not-so-awesome big companies, not-so-awesome politicians, bureaucrats. To live your life afraid of running across "not-so-awesome" people and opportunities would mean you guarantee you will never encounter the truly awesome people and opportunities.
- readymade 14y ago
  Unless you're willing to take a long look in the mirror and recognize that the primary fuckup here was in abusing someone's trust, I hope this story serves as a cautionary tale to others. You can tell yourself whatever you want.

by dxbydt 14y ago

argumentum 14y ago

But it does suck to be an employee at one of these gigs...you are at the receiving end of juvenile behavior & you have no recourse. I have to disagree strongly with this statement. Yes, you put yourself at risk by working at a startup vs a big company... this is a risky business. I myself will end up with nearly nothing, after taking no salary for 5 months and leaving the company I founded for new ideas. It does NOT suck.. in fact the summer experiences of the interns we laid off were on average way better than they would have received at big companies. For the short time they were with us, they brainstormed our product from the ground up, went along and participated in office hours, meeting YC partners and co-founders of other startups in my batch and attend parties and events. They've made valuable connections and now know what it's like to start a startup (the good and the bad). Every intern at my s12 batchmates' companies that I've talked to raves about the experience. Our own interns all got new internships within a week or two (at mostly yc, but a couple 500startups cos as well) that paid equal or more than we did and had fruitful summer experiences (this was our #1 priority while pivoting, even more than our own startup). Yes, they took a risk, at first it seemed like it backfired, but in the end I am sure none of them would take it back.

dxbydt 14y ago
>I have to disagree strongly with this statement Dude, you can disagree all day long. You have no locus standi - you were the employer, not the employee. One of these days, the shoe => other foot, and then you can tell me if it sucks or not. Especially when you are stuck in a new state with no healthcare & a family dependent on you, after leaving a 6 figure job at a bigco where chances of getting canned was like asymptotically close to nil. Anycase, I was not talking about you here...am sure you are an awesome guy & ran an awesome startup etc...just that there are other not-so-awesome startups & not-so-awesome founders out there.
- argumentum 14y ago
  Especially when you are stuck in a new state with no healthcare & a family dependent on you I don't say it's the right decision for everyone, perhaps for someone with a dependent family the right decision is to stay with the big company. But to take away the FREEDOM to take a risk, that is simply wrong... let me quote James Madison from the 10th Federalist Paper. It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy (destroying libery), that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.
- argumentum 14y ago
  just that there are other not-so-awesome startups & not-so-awesome founders out there. There are not-so-awesome big companies, not-so-awesome politicians, bureaucrats. To live your life afraid of running across "not-so-awesome" people and opportunities would mean you guarantee you will never encounter the truly awesome people and opportunities.
readymade 14y ago
Unless you're willing to take a long look in the mirror and recognize that the primary fuckup here was in abusing someone's trust, I hope this story serves as a cautionary tale to others. You can tell yourself whatever you want.