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It’s strange to see extreme amount of hysteria on this. There’s enough market competition to not allow this. If ChatGPT is doing it then just move to Claude. I
by simianwords 8mo ago
It’s strange to see extreme amount of hysteria on this. There’s enough market competition to not allow this.
If ChatGPT is doing it then just move to Claude. If all are doing it then surely opensource models are a good alternative.
But i think leaning into the hysteria provides some comfort
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- greekrich92 8mo agoMost LLM users are not techies
- simianwords 8mo agoHow does that matter? I can vibecode a ChatGPT clone in 30 min that uses gpt apis and sell it at subscription.
- oblio 8mo agoThey'll just ban that...
- monooso 8mo agoIt's interesting to contrast this take with the opinions expressed on an earlier thread about OpenAI's moat (or lack thereof). Several people pointed to Google Search as an example of "user count as moat", and an explanation of its continued dominance despite a results page dominated by "sponsored" results. Presumably the same reasoning would apply here.
- simianwords 8mo agoAssuming chatgpt has moat, what kind of moat would apply that it is so crucial that it won't allow people to move away from it?
- hirako2000 8mo agoOP's point is the same can be said about Google (search).
- simianwords 8mo agothe value add of google search is just not that high that people are willing to pay for it. whereas its different for llm's. same as for youtube, netflix and spotify.
- likium 8mo agoWe didn't see the majority switch from Google to Duckduckgo because of ads or privacy... Being the "default" brings network effects that is hard to switch away.
- simianwords 8mo agothere was no good way to pay for google to remove ads. do you not think that the primary reason was that people just weren't bothered by ads? in contrast to youtube where people do pay to remove ads - like me.
- zulban 8mo agoThat's not how enshittification, vendor lock in, and network effects work. You're participating in the collective delusion that we have perfect market competition.
- simianwords 8mo agoexplain the dynamics of how enshittification would work here?
- zulban 8mo agoYou won't get good answers asking to be spoonfed on a random discussion forum by strangers. If you're truly curious, look it up, maybe read a book by Cory Doctorow.
- simianwords 8mo agohe's a charlatan
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- zulban 8mo agoYou seem very confident for someone who just asked about enshittification basics. You're being dishonest.
- simianwords 8mo agoyou think i was asking you about the basics but i was asking about how the dynamics would work in this context - which you couldn't so you resorted to some insults.
- WarmWash 8mo agoPeople stay on the shitty platform because it is convenient and still does what they need. See extreme-enshitification-of-already-shitty Windows vs free Linux.
- jrtz4 8mo agoWhile it isn't a perfect comparison, streaming platforms that have ad-subsidized subscriptions with ads (as the name suggests) certainly haven't been driven out by market competition. I believe hysteria in this case is healthy, so we can end up with something closer the still fairly reasonable implementation of the streaming platforms, instead of the example here.
- simianwords 8mo ago> streaming platforms that have ad-subsidized subscriptions with ads (as the name suggests) certainly haven't been driven out by market competition which ones don't have an ad free tier?
- dom96 8mo agoYouTube didn't have an ad-free tier for a very long time
- Aurornis 8mo agoIf YouTube was forced to offer an ad-free tier due to competition that supports the claim above.
- Intermernet 8mo agoYouTube Red was released over a decade ago. I haven't watched ads on YouTube for about that long.
- nickk81 8mo agoYou can still have 10 different providers with advertising. Although I agree more competition will act as a counter to spoiling the experience with advertising.
- hinkley 8mo agoIt won’t when the money runs out.
- falkensmaize 8mo agoThe cost to train and run these things is going to lead to fewer players eventually. I suspect we end up with 2 or 3 big players in 10 years.
- no-name-here 8mo ago1. Open source models are already at Sonnnet 4.5 levels. For a lot of people’s needs, that's going to be sufficient. 2. Costs will come down as more efficient AI hardware continues to roll out, and once demand eventually catches up with supply in the coming years. 3. So super low cost (or free ad-supported) options will exist, and people will only pay more (in money or ads) for superior quality. … unless training sources become pay to play?
- hackerInnen 8mo ago> There’s enough market competition to not allow this. Why do people think it will NOT happen? There are tons and tons of examples out there where it happened exactly like this over and over again. Why would AI suddenly be the exception? It's really not about competition. It's about who gets the users first and/or does the best marketing
- hinkley 8mo agoAll the competition now is VC dollars. And the last round that OpenAI and Anthropic landed will probably be their last at favorable rates. Oxide just closed a funding round they took solely to be able to guarantee their longevity as a vendor in order to land sales. That feels a lot like a harbinger of the easy money drying up very soon, and trying to get in before the door is locked. The valuations are ridiculous now, which means the expectations are as well. Expectations are expensive.
- twoodfin 8mo agoReminds me of those absurd “selling web sites & apps like cable channels” graphics from the Net Neutrality wars. This one apparently originated at Reddit, natch: https://cordcutting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/quink.png https://cordcutting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/quink.png
- Forgeties79 8mo agoI don’t think it was all that absurd. IIRC Portugal was already flirting with a system like that at the time. ISP’s wanted websites to pay them a fee in order to be accessible or at least not throttled, while also wanting customers to pay a fee to access sites/access them without being throttled. At least that’s how I remember it, it has been quite some time since I really went down that rabbit hole.
- oblio 8mo agoIndian ISP had Meta paying them to have their apps included in the unmetered list... Far from absurd, reality.
- Forgeties79 8mo agoDidn’t even know about that, great example
- pfortuny 8mo agoYou seem to not have known the Altavista/Yahoo/Terra/AskJeeves/Lycos/InfoSeek era of search engines. There was enough market competition to not allow for ads to appear on every search. And then, BANG!
- AlienRobot 8mo agoHow is the competition making money?
- ajam1507 8mo agoThere's plenty of competition in the online news space, but every news website is bloated with the most annoying ads and toxic paywalls.